Band 41

My mother got a positive only on Band 41.

The doctor said that means she does not have lyme disease. I found this rather suspicious.

Does anyone here have knowledge about Band 41?

Lyme is a clinical diagnosis, many people are negative on test and have Lyme. Have your mother consulted a LLMD?
Band 41 can be not only because of Borrelia, but also other spirochettes.

As another poster says (I think it's Bluelyme) - there are no good bacteria with tails!

Bands 18 & 41 (whether in IgM or IgG) are indicative of the tail of the bacteria, which can cross react with other Spirochetal bacteria such as Relapsing Fever, Pintas and Yaws, and Syphilis.

I would encourage you to have your Mom tested for these other things, but if those tests are negative, I would proceed with treatments for Lyme and company to help her heal.

A spirochete means it has a tail - not many bacteria have tails. So this limits the possibilities. Band 41 is specific for the tail of a bacteria (but I sure don't know how they do that!), although as I said, there are a few different bacteria that DO have tails. Lyme (Borrelia species) is only one of them.

www.livestrong.com/article/117677-five-different-types-bacteria/


www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/biology-and-genetics/cell-biology/spirochetes

I can't say that these pages contain all correct information (particularly about Lyme) but it will show at least give a good idea of the 'family of infections' that we are dealing with when it comes to testing positive for band 41:

www.merckmanuals.com/professional/infectious-diseases/spirochetes/introduction-to-spirochetes This opens to only one of the spirochete infections, on the right hand side of the page, you can see the listing of other infections.

I read all spirochetes have a flagella.
Isn't that how they 'swim'?

FWIW - here is a wikipedia article about it:

/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirochaete


"Spirochaetes are distinguished from other bacterial phyla by the location of their flagella, sometimes called axial filaments, which run lengthwise between the bacterial inner membrane and outer membrane in periplasmic space. These cause a twisting motion which allows the spirochaete to move about."


www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/biology-and-genetics/cell-biology/spirochetes

"Besides their shape, another distinctive aspect of spirochetes in the presence of what is essentially internal flagella. These structures, called axial filaments, are embedded in the cell wall of the bacterium. They are constructed very similarly as flagella, having the characteristic arrangement of structures that anchors the filament to the cell membrane. There can be only a few to as many as 200 axial filaments present in a given bacterium. The rigidity of an axial filament allows a bacterium to move in a corkscrew type of motion. Axial filaments are present in all spirochetes except Treponema."

"In terms of human health, spirochetes are noteworthy because of the disease causing members of the group. Treponema pallidum is the cause of syphilis and Borrelia burgdorferi is the cause of Lyme disease, which can produce a chronic infection that can result in arthritis, damage to the central nervous system, and even heart failure. Borrelia burgdorferi can convert to a metabolically dormant cyst in natural environments and even in humans. The cyst form allows the bacterium to survive inhospitable conditions and to elude host immune defense mechanisms."

From the new to lyme thread - explanation of the bands:

"41 flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after a Bb infection and is specific for all Borrellia"

If the information I read (see previous post) is correct, spirochetes are the only bacteria that have flagella,then I would say no it couldn't cross react with a non-spiro bacteria.


"Besides their shape, another distinctive aspect of spirochetes in the presence of what is essentially internal flagella. "

Yes, there are non-spirochete bacteria that have flagella too. We are questioning if the western blot can identify if you are making antibodies to non-spirochete flagella as well as spirochete flagella. I'm not sure how it could identify between the two. I wish I could talk to someone (not sure of the profession) that knows the answer to this.

Another example of a non-spirochete bacteria with flagella is e. coli.

Post Edited (k07) : 1/5/2017 5:34:15 PM (GMT-7)

I may try to call Igenex tomorrow. Maybe they could give a little more info. If i remember and get anything useful I would be sure to post it.

Sorry you're not having a good day girlie, I'm starting to have more of those myself. And lol, my brains missing too. (Although that may have been a pre-existing condition :p)

Girlie said...
Okay, then...I was missing 'something' (that something - being my brain...haha)

It is a little confusing. I just watched a western blotting video and goodness I had no idea all the steps involved in one test! Hope you feel better...

Thank you for your opinion Traveler. That's kind of the issue at the moment - finding a KNOWLEDGEABLE LLMD (and quickly). I'm hoping this new dr will be, good reviews seem to indicate they will be. Just hard waiting another month and a half while I feel like a toy with dying batteries.

Just curious, I know many may have suppressed immune system and the WB is unreliable to begin with for lyme. But how common is out for someone to be infected while still showing negative (but maybe a positive/ind band) results at a quality lab?

And given I had my blood tested right at the 2 month mark I wouldn't think my immune system would be THAT compromised that quickly, but hey what do I know