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Posted 3/21/2017 11:31 PM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone, it’s been a bit since I’ve checked in. I’m looking at the threads to see how people are getting along. I hope 2017 is treating you well on your healing journeys.

I feel really bad to sound like a broken record, as I've written about this very topic before. Have experienced IBS and anxiety/depression from a young age, but I fear that the Lyme re-awakened a lot of the symptoms I had been managing.

I lack zest for life, am tired all of the time, have trouble sleeping/staying asleep, and have a huge amount of health & social anxiety and agoraphobic symptoms.

I know they say that as you treat, these symptoms will improve… but treatment takes time. That being said, I’m seeing a psychiatrist tomorrow. I’m very nervous/afraid to start medication, but my negative mindset and depression are really weighing me down and keeping me from moving forward. I feel in a real bind- I don’t’ want the side effects (weight loss, brain zaps, G.I upset), but haven’t been able to beat this anxiety and depression.

Anyone else been in a similar boat/ have positive experiences with antidepressants during treatment?
I would like a life preserver of sorts- I think when I herx it's expressed mentally and via G.I symptoms, so I'd like a med to help level me out a bit- wishful thinking?

I want to treat the Lyme as holistically as possible so that’s why this decision feels so rough- and I’ve been on the fence about it for months now. I just want to make a decision and start to move forward. I’ve done so much research and know how “bad” these drugs can be for you, but crippling anxiety/depression/stress doesn’t help the body heal either, right?
Posted 3/21/2017 11:41 PM (GMT 0)
I've been on antidepressants while having Lyme and co., and NOT being on treatment.

I hope you can or are really concentrating on a good detox protocol. It seriously will help minimize herxing, no matter what form.

That being said, sometimes it is necessary to use other help, because oddly enough, mellowing out your mental issues will help you push through your Lyme treatment easier and perhaps faster.

Please read up on and/or discuss the various treatments, and try for the safest, least difficult one to get off of if you need or want to. Often these Drs. have no clue about that, or don't care.

Also be wary of those anti-depressants that can instigate long term neurological problems...I wish I could get to my links to share a study with you, but my computer is messed up and I can't access any of my bookmarks.
Posted 3/21/2017 11:43 PM (GMT 0)
aloha - while I chose not to take anything pharmaceutical when I had symptoms of anxiety and bouts of depression at the same time...it did subside within a couple of months.

Had it not subsided ...I may have gone to the medications.

Sometimes we need a little help while we're treating.

Whether it's sleep meds, anxiety/depression meds...pain meds...we have to be functional.

I've just made the decision to discuss with my GP taking some Gabapentin for my nerve pain. I've suffered for 3 1/2 years with it. That's long enough.

Just make sure when it's time to come off them that you wean slowly off...even slower than what the Psychiatrist tells you...
Posted 3/21/2017 11:47 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks July- I don't think I'm detoxing well enough. I do some lemon water and an occasional salt bath, but know I need to improve on that front.

I'm not on much of a protocol right now either- was working my way up on sawmento & banderol drops and was herxing just at 8 drops! I was crying, moody... felt like I was losing it emotionally-it was awful sad

I'll try to do some research on anti-depressants w/ long term neuro problems since I know you're having trouble accessing your bookmarks (sorry to hear you've having computer problems).

It seems like all ADs have issues so picking one feels like a heck of an ordeal. Plus, I know withdrawal can be tough- been there. I've been free of them for 3 years, so going back on feels like defeat, but I don't know how else to hang in there.
Posted 3/21/2017 11:52 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks, Girlie. It helps to hear from you, July, and others that it's "ok" to go this route. I've been fighting against it, but my quality of life has really diminished due to not handling the emotions well.

Kudos to you for chatting w/ your GP about the gabapentin. You've soldiered on and if it can provide some relief, then it seems like something that might be worth a go.

And you're so right about weaning slowly- last two times I've come off I did so way too quickly/ cold turkey and that was not a fun road to go down- brain zaps for months afterward. That's partially why I'm so hesitant. I know that coming off can be a feat.
Posted 3/21/2017 11:59 PM (GMT 0)
I agree - if we can improve our quality of life while treating...then we should.

I just never thought it would be this long....and I'm just feeling like my life is passing me by.

...and if it stops that 'cycle' of pain that would be a bonus as well. (someone posted about the pain memory that the brain has...and I have read that before)


Hope you find an AD that works well for you...with minimal side effects.
Posted 3/22/2017 12:05 AM (GMT 0)
I was just contemplating depression and Lyme today myself. I've been really weepy and moody and just blah lately. It's always come and gone throughout my life but it's been worse lately. Then I remembered...I started two new antibiotics a week ago! Duh! So I took some alka seltzer gold. This whole stupid disease is depressing. How long it takes to treat and everything. And as if that weren't bad enough, as the dang things die they release all sorts of goodies into our bloodstream to make us even more depressed! Ugh!! Please let us know how you get on. I'm sure many of us struggle in this same area. Hugs!
Posted 3/22/2017 12:17 AM (GMT 0)
Interesting that you should mention IBS as part of your symptoms. Somewhere between 50% and 90% of your critical brain chemicals - seratonin, melatonin, etc, are manufactured in the gut - not the brain. While Lyme & co - especially the co - do target the brain through metabolic disruptors as well as synaptic disruptors, it is easy to forget the brain-gut relationship. One supports the other. So using those tools, both medicinal and perhaps meditative (whatever method you might prefer) use a two pronged approach. The critters do impact the gut in ways we don't always know. They are sneaky that way. Illigetimi non carborundum.
Posted 3/22/2017 4:07 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie- It's interesting you mention the pain cycle. I've done reading on that/stored trauma and have just gotten the book "when the body says no." It's fascinating stuff. I'd love an update if you choose to do the gabapentin.

ChickNorris- sorry you've been dealing with the weepy/moody feelings. Just feels awful. Glad you were able to pinpoint it as herxing. Does the a.s gold work well for you?

OldSalty- you're spot on. The brain-gut connection is such an interconnected and multifaceted system. For years I've been trying to gather info. on this. It seems we're still a ways away from understanding it all, just that the gut affects the brain and vice versa. I've overhauled my diet- gluten free for years now, no dairy, low-to-no sugar and caffeine, etc. Plus- I don't smoke or drink. I'm always searching for ways to improve this connection, so that's why I get discouraged from time to time, going through real funks, when the IBS or anxiety/depression acts up.

Thank you all for the support. It's often hard to know what's what- "did the chicken come first, or did the egg?" when it comes to Lyme.
Posted 3/22/2017 7:48 AM (GMT 0)
One of the best pieces of advice I was given -thank you Traveler!! -was filling my mp3 player wil all my favorite happy happy tunes. I had them seperated into two files, one happy and energetic and the other that made me smile but more relaxed.

The depression and anxiety I dealt with was crippling at times but feeding my brain with the positive made more difference than any med I took.

Just a thought, it is free and easy to do. It may not rid you of the symptoms like getting rid of the lyme will but it is amazing what a change a bit of steering the brain can accomplish.

PS I also sang loudly at times, much to the wincing of my OH. I sound like a cat being strangled, lol!!
Posted 3/22/2017 11:16 AM (GMT 0)
Lyme directly causes depression through the immune response the deregulates l-tryptophan pathway. 5htp, any setotonin precursor supplements and some sort of IDO inhibitor to stop QUIN which causes anxiety and depression more than anything else and is seen severely high in lyme patients when compared to control.

IV antibiotics helped me a lot. Night and day. That and taking lemon balm, small amounts of melatonin but mostly IV Rocephin cured me of depression and anxiety.

Problem is ALL OF my symptoms are returning since cessation.
Posted 3/22/2017 10:19 PM (GMT 0)
Good tips, Silly Sheep. Thank you. And birthdaysuit- very interesting. I do have lemon balm on hand, but it only helps a bit. I'm glad to hear that the IV antibiotics helped you a lot, but am bummed to hear about the return of your symptoms since concluding them. I've heard this in other cases and it's disappointing to hear. Have other herbs been of help?

Also- to update everyone. The meeting today with the psych doctor went well. I could tell that they were in a different category of clinician because they gave me blood work to do prior to starting medications- to get a baseline and see if deficiencies in Vitamin B or D could be factoring in. That level of thoroughness was really comforting to me. They understand my medication fears and leveled with me- ultimately one has to try to know. There is no way to 100% know what side effects may be, so trying to pick the best fit and then going low and slow is the ticket. When we talked about tapering they understood discontinuation as well and even mentioned liquid forms. I just felt more at ease being listened to and not ignored like the last psych doctor I went to. That Dr. denied long term side effect possibilities, withdrawal symptoms that last more than a month, etc. Just wasn't the right fit. I did not mention lyme though to either Dr. It seems that many Drs do not recognize it and I don't want to be treated differently. Have any of you come against this- deciding whether or not to mention lyme for fear of being dismissed?
Posted 3/22/2017 11:16 PM (GMT 0)
Glad to hear you had a good appointment smile It is great to hear that you felt you have found a better fit of doctor, it always helps.

Have you considered the 'I have a friend who has lyme and they said.....but I wanted to know your opinion on this' sort of tactic? Then if they shut you down with the ol' 'that's nonsense/lyme can't cause that ...etc etc' routine you can just nod and say 'yes, I thought so' and nod in 'agreement' with them. I have used this to test the waters, so to speak. Just a thought.
Posted 3/22/2017 11:47 PM (GMT 0)
Aloha just curious if you ever did neurotransmitter, amino acid, and hormone testing done? Amino acids are building blocks and can also be a source of deficiency that can hamper our moods. I've done all these tests and all deficiencies can often be be treated with supplying the missing nutrients.

I just wanted to mention this because sometimes medications are needed, but often giving the body what it's deficient in can be a major help in our moods.
Posted 3/23/2017 2:54 AM (GMT 0)
Ashwaganda root for anxiety smile
Posted 3/23/2017 3:50 AM (GMT 0)
That's a really good idea, Silly sheep. I'll see if I can use that tactic moving forward.
Krimpet- I've had some of those done in the past- hormones & amino acids. I've read up on neurotransmitter testing, but it seems it is hit and miss. I've been interested in Julia Ross' work and others who heal mood disorders naturally. I've tried different amino acids, but haven't noticed the dramatic results that others mention.

I also just did a test called genesight. It's not fool-proof, there are always exceptions, but the idea of it is that it tells you which head meds might be the best fit for you based on how they metabolize in the body. It's covered by insurance, so I thought I'd give it a go. I see that you're treating naturally and that gives me great hope. I'm using supplements, sawmento & banderol, and a gluten-free, dairy-free, low-no sugar, and organic fruits & veggie diet to heal... I'm trying to get a more solid protocol in place- baby steps.

Constantly learning- good suggestion. I've taken ashwagandha in the past. In fact, there's a probiotic that I take on/off that has it in it. It's called Mood+ by Garden of Life.
I like to see what probiotics and supplements folks are using and finding helpful, so thought I'd share.
Posted 3/23/2017 2:40 PM (GMT 0)
Aloha, if you're unable to mention lyme to your doctor for fear that you may be looked down on or belittled, at least in my view this doctor is not worth going to.

Other things that helped me were microdosing psilocybin mushrooms, YES phychedelic mushrooms, they have no crazy mental effects when microdosing and make me feel normal for a good 4-5 hours, plus they promote neurogenesis, so they are actually good for you. Of course dosage is everything. I would advise anyone to take it if they know who grows them, if they grow them their selves and they have a extract form. Important because you don't want the psychedelic effects, only the anti-anxiety and potent ant-depressant effects which I take some of that back. Large dosages can cue depression but it's not for everyone.

Monolaurin helped tremendously. Gives terrible herxes. That with Enula and semento are the only herbs that made me herx and feel slightly better. IV was the winner in all of this but it's expensive, too expensive and insurance likely won't cover it for that long.
Posted 4/5/2017 2:53 AM (GMT 0)
Birthday suit- so interesting that you mention micro dosing. Just listened to a great podcast about it.
I will look into monolaurin as I've heard good things about it too.

I took a 1/2 dose of the antidepressant yesterday- haven't liked how I've felt. Just feel terrified to be taking an antidepressant again. Not sure how to proceed. I'm not sure if I have the courage to take it again tonight- it's already been over 24 hrs. since that first dose. In my heart, I don't want to be on meds, so it's a real struggle. They've helped in the past, but with Lyme as an add on now, I feel a whole other set of worries. I struggle with health anxiety and right now I just feel at a loss of knowing what's best to do.
Posted 4/5/2017 9:12 AM (GMT 0)
Mucuna bean for dopamine and holy basil for anxiety helps
Posted 4/5/2017 12:15 PM (GMT 0)
I have found that Source Naturals' Serene Science ( theanine serene with relora) has worked really well for my depression and anxiety. A friend's daughter was told to take this by a psychiatrist. It contains magnesium, taurine, theanine, relora and holy basil. It is non-addicting.

I've been through Xanax withdrawals a few years ago and it was horrendous. Much love and luck.

Patty
Posted 4/5/2017 4:23 PM (GMT 0)
I'm with BlueLyme. Mucuna helps if you have a dopamine deficiency based depression.

I take it with L-theanine (or green tea), and it make it work better.
Posted 4/5/2017 9:17 PM (GMT 0)
Aloha,
I take NOW True Focus amino acid tabs - two in the morning and two in the afternoon. They help me immensely. The price is reasonable (on Amazon).

My understanding is the amino acids in True Focus are amino acids that begin to dwindle as we age. I found out about it from a book by Julia Ross called "The Mood Cure."
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