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Babesia treatment and herx advice?

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Posted 4/2/2017 3:32 PM (GMT 0)
So I've been getting treated for Chronic Lyme for over 7 months now. On my latest visit to my LLMD, I was put on Clarithromycn 500mg 2/day, Plaquenil 200mg 1/day, Artemesia+ Capsules. The Clarithromycn will be pulsed with 500mg 2/day Penicillin Mon-Thur while I take the Clarithromycn Friday-Sunday. I have been on this for two days so far and feel pretty much as bad as I did during the first 2 months of Lyme treatment. Symptoms being, Chills, Fatigue, Sweats, Dizziness, Neck Pain, General Weakness, Nausea, and Diarehea. <- With all these things also comes depression (I mean how could it not) To me this feels like a Herx from Babesia.

I've been working a winter job that ends in three weeks. Wondering if I shoud halt this treatment until I am done and can focus 100% on Lyme/Babs? I had to call out of work today and would hate to have to finish up the year feeling like complete crap or like i'm dying...Has anyone gotten better from Babs, does this sound like Babs, how long does it take to get better from babs, am I on the right meds for Babs?

(I am also on the core protocol of Buhner)

Thanks so much again guys!
Posted 4/2/2017 3:37 PM (GMT 0)
Rather than stopping treatment, what about slowing it down so you aren't herxing so much instead? That would allow you to finish up this project and keep going on improving your health.

Do be sure you are doing all you can to detox too, to help with the herxing.

And, just to clarify, are you on Buhner's core protocol for Lyme or Babesia or both?
Posted 4/2/2017 3:41 PM (GMT 0)
I was not going to stop my treatment, just thinking of stopping the plaquenil and artemesia+ capsules until the 23rd when work ends.

I am on the core protocol for just Lyme, not Babesia
Posted 4/2/2017 3:45 PM (GMT 0)
I am detoxing with alka seltzer gold, a detox tea combo from a local health store, and epsom salt baths when needed. Another thing that is of major concern to me is weight loss. When herxing I seem to lose any weight I have gained during my "good times". I am 6 ft 3 and weight barely 160 right now...

I have "good periods" lasting about 12 days, followed by "bad times" which last about 8-9 days. This cycle is very pronounced and frustrating. During the bad times I lose my appetite and get nauseas with diareha until I get down to like my "minimum weight"
Posted 4/2/2017 4:02 PM (GMT 0)
What about just reducing the dose of the Plaquenil and artemesia+ down to low enough levels that you aren't herxing instead of stopping them? This might allow you to keep the improvements you may have gained and not loose ground. Cut down in half could make a huge difference, then if you realize that's a bit much to cut out, you could raise your dose slightly until you find that balance?
Posted 4/2/2017 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
I don't know if cutting the Plaquenil dose will work very quickly...it will take time because the incredibly long half-life is 30-50 hours...so it builds and builds in the blood stream.

So maybe cutting back on the Biaxin as well...is something that is needed.
Posted 4/2/2017 8:30 PM (GMT 0)
That sounds like a relapsing fever version, either borrelia or rickettsia. The babesiosis can be be adding to the relapsing flare.
Posted 4/3/2017 2:34 PM (GMT 0)
Luckily I have ony taken the paquenil for 2 days so far, i have been on the biaxin before for 2 months and made it through. The paquenil I have tried before and the same thing happened...
Posted 4/3/2017 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
You could stop the plaquenil and lower the dose of the other meds.

But you may not get immediate relief because of the plaquenil half life - it could take awhile with the half life being so long.
Posted 4/3/2017 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
Biaxin/Plaq combo is the old Donta protocol where he claimed the plaq makes Biaxin more powerful and penetrate cells deeper.
Posted 4/3/2017 5:09 PM (GMT 0)
Tickbite - what is the Donta protocol?

Is that a Dr. name?
Posted 4/3/2017 7:14 PM (GMT 0)
Sam Donta was an early pioneer in lyme research and treatment with long term ABX. His protocol was high dosage of Tetracycline in winter and rotate to Biaxin and Plaq when sun got stronger. I think he was credited for isolating the lyme toxin at his research facility at Boston Univ, and was the sole dissenter on the IDSA committee that drafted the current CDC Lyme treatment guidelines. He recently retired from private practice, and was a frequent speaker at ILADS conferences.

He was good to get a positive clinical diagnosis, and one of a few LLMDs to accept insurance. He was politically well connected, and was never challenged by state medical regulators. Down side was his mono therapies and lack of aggressiveness with treating co's.

Please don't ding me on writing his full name, he was widely published, and like I said... now retired.
Posted 4/3/2017 7:17 PM (GMT 0)

tickbite666 said...


Please don't ding me on writing his full name, he was widely published, and like I said... now retired.

He's retired - so no 'dinging' necessary.

So, he had good success rates even with mono therapy and not treating the co's?
Posted 4/3/2017 7:36 PM (GMT 0)
He helped an awful lot of patient here locally and folks would fly in from all over the world back in the old days when specialist were far and few between.

For complex cases like us we need a more aggressive approach and take more risks.

later
Posted 4/3/2017 8:19 PM (GMT 0)

tickbite666 said...
He helped an awful lot of patient here locally and folks would fly in from all over the world back in the old days when specialist were far and few between.

For complex cases like us we need a more aggressive approach and take more risks.

I thought all chronic lyme cases 'complex'?
Posted 4/5/2017 1:55 PM (GMT 0)
Goldengoose,

I know of one lady who treated her lyme and co-infections until she had a pattern of cycling symptoms that was very pronounced. Her doctor attributed the cycling to Babesia, so he told her to pulse her treatment beginning the day before the expected symptoms would arise and treat for the expected duration. I don't think she treated during her good days. It's been a few years since I've read her story, but I think she used Artemisinin. I could be wrong, and I'm sorry I don't remember the dose, but I do know that she got better and had been in remission for several years when she wrote me. If I find her story, I will write back. I thought treating your illness in this fashion may give you some time while you are still working.
Posted 4/5/2017 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
i am treating babesia again per my new LLMD protocol but i'm pretty sure i've beat my babesia duncani into remission a while ago. i treated it very aggressively for almost 10 months and i'd say by month 6 i had no symptoms from it.

6 months later after stopping any anti-malarial treatment i started plaquenil which does have some action against babesia. i got a herx the first day and that was it. babesia still shows up as positive on my Igenex FISH test but i'm asymptomatic so even this little stubborn bugger can be beat it just takes time and lots of anti-malarials.
Posted 4/6/2017 2:52 AM (GMT 0)
I've been fighting Babesia for over a year and just can't beat it. The symptoms quieted down on clyndamicin but when I stopped it they all came back within 10 days. With my Babesia herx I get overwhelming fatigue, increased sweats, worsening of air hunger, sometimes chills and nausea. Only during a really bad herx I get all the symptoms otherwise I might just get 1-3 symptoms.
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