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Question for the ladies about herbs and vaginal issues

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Posted 4/25/2017 1:19 AM (GMT 0)
After almost 6 months of various antibiotics with NO lady issues I have stopped antibiotics and started Houttuynia. Wow this is powerful stuff! Everytime I get up to between 10-15 drops I get horrible vaginal dryness and some external itching. I have backed off on the dose 2x and tried again with the same results. I cannot tell if this a fungal or bacterial issue or both. It feels like it killed off everything in there!!!

As for my other symptoms they have remained the same so I don't know if it's really helping or if it's just keeping the bacterial load down now that I stopped the antibiotics. The doctor knows about the problem but thinks it's possibly hormonal. Since it coincides with the dose going up I think it's the herb.

My questions

Do I just back down to 10 drops and stay there? Is that therapeutic?

Does this mean I have a candida issue that I didn't know about?

Any treatment ideas?

I have upped my probiotic intake and tried purefem suppository which did help until I went back up on the dose of the herb. Thanks
Posted 4/25/2017 3:30 AM (GMT 0)
Hey. I'm sorry to hear you're going through that. I appreciate you putting the Purefem up there. Didn't know such a thing existed, but it sounds convenient. In terms of solutions and ideas, it totally is because of the meds. They are wiping out the bacteria and likely causing your hormones to be off as well. Bacteria make up the micro biome and that will affect every part of you. Any microbial defense med in general are known to do this.

It's my opinion that something that might help is cycling the med. Try to take a few days off or lighten the load. It may mean that your body needs time to re-up on the good bacteria. Try detoxing more and taking a little break from the med. Maybe it's too strong for you. Maybe you have parasites and should try to attack those first. So, scaling back might be a good idea, but making sure you're eating as close to a Paleo diet as possible, should also help. When in doubt yogurt, Purefem, clean diet, baths with dead sea salt and avocado oil is really nice, makes your skin so soft, and using a little avocado oil is a good idea. Just pat it on you and in the bath. It moistens skin and heals. Also, maybe try to wipe with natural wet wipes. worth investing in it for the little time you'll be on the meds. Just ideas. Good luck!

Post Edited (Herestobeingme) : 4/24/2017 9:34:27 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/25/2017 3:28 PM (GMT 0)
While you can try pulsing the herb to get up to dose, don't do this for long as it reduces it's effectiveness. Herbs are meant to be used continuously in order to be effective.

I've not heard of anyone else that has had this particular issue with Houttuynia, but as Herestobeingme said, it could still be a part of it disrupting the balance, or it could be that your hormones are out of whack. Many of us here deal with out of whack hormones because these infections can and do attack every part of our body.
Posted 4/25/2017 3:36 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe your maximum dose of Houttuynia is only 15 drops. We all have different tolerances. Some of the Buhner herbs I could take 2 or more droppers full and not even tell that I had taken anything. Some I felt with 3 drops.

And some I reacted so badly with 1 drop I stopped it right away.

Buhner's references are just guidelines and are not to be considered dosages written in stone.

Another consideration is what other herbs are you taking and what other supplements? Herbs like to work in synergy, but they also like balance.

And one more thing, maybe this herb is not for you when it comes to Bartonella. Maybe you two don't get along. I had that happen to me with a couple of herbs.

So I just moved on to the next herb.

Anytime I got a bad reaction of any kind, I moved on to something else. There are so many alternatives. I don't recommend pushing through reactions. Your body is trying to tell you something. The hard part is figuring out what it is saying.
Posted 4/26/2017 1:26 AM (GMT 0)
My Dr said I could stop it if I want but I know it's killing stuff....I just hope it's the Bart!!! I took none last night and only 5 drops this AM. Its a bit better today.

To be honest I am scared to be on nothing after the antibiotics. But I also agree that this herb may not be right for me.

Any other herbal antibiotic suggestions targeted for Bart? I feel my bacterial load is low but I know they hide and pop back out to give you a relapse. I am currently working on my immune system and hormones (but the lady issues started with the herb not those meds). I already feel like those made a very small dent in my pots and heat intolerance symptoms and I don't want to backslide but I would like my vagina back to normal
shocked
Posted 4/26/2017 1:43 AM (GMT 0)
You could try Sida Acuta and Japanese knotweed together.
Posted 4/26/2017 1:57 AM (GMT 0)
my lady issues freaked me out at first, ran to the OB/GYN who didn't care about lyme or abx, so i went to my naturopath.

First of all, i'm on abx, not herbs, so I can't help you there. But here's my other experience, feeling better:

yeast infections = itching. All the time. Treating them with the OTC miconazole 7-day, and every few months get a round of diflucan. I can keep it at bay for a few weeks, but it always comes back, even when i don't know it. Gave it to my husband 8-|

At my worst and dryest, I went to the OBGYN; she said i had dryness and mild BV. Treated it with the metro cream. She recommend a bunch of typical OTC creams for dryness and balance, but i don't like the ingredients in those. Went to my ND.

My ND said my poor lady parts need a break. Everything's out of balance, stop throwing yeast and BV treatments at it. I can't stop the abx, so i upped my probiotics - taking 60 billion twice a day, and then she recommended adding Femdophilus which specifically targets vaginal health. It's mad expensive (ships with cold pack, keep refrigerated) but RePhresh Pro-B has the same
strains. I doubt if it's as good quality, but i'm taking up to three a day (5 bill each) so i will mix the expensive and the cheap and see what happens. In fact, for two months i was only taking 1 a day and just now noticed she told me 3. oops. well one helped a little, so 3 should be amazing.

In the meantime, moisturizing with coconut oil. Now i know that kills bacteria, and we want to grow good bacteria, but it's only on the outside, and it's the best feeling thing for me. Because it's solid at room temp, it's easier to apply as it melts on your skin. I was recommend vitamin E oil, but the liquid is just too messy to apply for me. Also did a suppository for a week (Healing Suppositories by Wise Woman Herbals, but it's out of stock everywhere).

Also switched to toilet paper without chlorine bleach, and organic pads; again, expensive so I alternate with regulars, but for a few days did only organic.

After all that, I'm feeling much better down there. Still have yeast infections but I SEE it before I FEEL it, and treat immediately with miconazole. No more burning, itching, cracking, or constant pain. She's a happy lady. If anything starts, I go right to my coconut oil for dryness and miconazole for yeast.

It's an expensive and tedious regimen, but I feel much better!
Posted 4/26/2017 4:13 AM (GMT 0)
Dc28 -

Sorry, I don't have much to add at all to help you… hope you're finding some relief.

BabsBunny -
Your husband is treating as well, right? Can pass everything back-n-forth.

You might also try a home-made suppository - fill an ice cube tray w/ the coconut oil (try to use organic, virgin, unrefined, etc…) insert one before bedtime - wear a pad.

Also, you can take a LOT higher doses of probiotics - it's expensive, yes. But my Lyme-friendly gastro assured me that 400-500 billion is a good dose. He has a pt taking 900 billion.

Another thing to try if you just can't get it licked is to get some PURE Nystatin powder (anti fungal) and make a douche-like rinse with it. You can also make a lotion with it and apply topically. You can drink it, too, but it probably won't do much for vaginal overgrowth.

Biofilm
Speaking of lady parts, I have had weird cycle issues since starting BFM-1. I'm 1,074 years old and while it's a bit of a surprise, I still have very, very regular cycles even through the Lyme treatment. I've tracked my periods and ovulation for 5-6 yrs now, I even have a very fertile mucus discharge, all the works… until I started a biofilm-buster BFM-1. My next period was 3 wks apart, then it was 2 wks apart, then it disappeared, and I'm ovulating at very strange intervals. Lyme nurse is blaming babs run amuck. Who knows?

-p
Posted 4/26/2017 11:14 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks Pirouette and Babsbunny! These are some great suggestions.

I agree that the gyns have no idea about Lyme stuff so I haven't even called her. When I first got sick I had bladder and bowel issues and was on antibiotics and things got out of wack down there and she threw the pharmaceutical book at it and it didn't help, just made the cycle start over again.

I actually have some femdophilus (its old but been in the fridge) and I took 1 but I am going to up that today and order more. I know it's $ but it works. Also ordered more regular probiotics and they are coming today so I am going to try to repopulate it naturally.

I saw a homeopathic dr in the beginning but he retired before I got my official diagnosis from llmd. Haven't found an ND in my area so hearing all your suggestions is helpful and I thank you all. Without all the great information on this forum I would lost.
Posted 4/26/2017 11:57 AM (GMT 0)
also, Femdophilus can be dipped in water and inserted vaginally, if it doesn't give you cramps. Get it right where it needs to go.
Posted 4/26/2017 2:32 PM (GMT 0)
Where were you ladies when I was dealing with this??? That's what I want to know! LOL!

As for what to do next, I would also suggest that you try Japanese knotweed and Sida acuta. Those are the two herbs I'm on for Bartonella now - and they are kicking my rear any time I raise my dose! I know that I respond to houttuynia even more, so I saved it for last! LOL! Going slow and steady and I just went from tinctures to dry herbs - and way low on my doses!!! Zing!!
Posted 4/26/2017 3:04 PM (GMT 0)
Buhner on Houttuynia -- "However, a few inidvidual reports from China say it can, very rarely, cause congestion in the vagina (but I can't really tell what that means)."

So on rare occasions there can be a side effect that he can't explain.

Have you thought about starting with the basic lyme protocol and working up to the what we call "the big guns?"
Posted 4/26/2017 3:44 PM (GMT 0)

BabsBunny said...
also, Femdophilus can be dipped in water and inserted vaginally, if it doesn't give you cramps. Get it right where it needs to go.

I think this is very interesting - I'm sure we have different biomes in our GIs but I think this makes a lot of sense.

-p
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