Candida & Lyme

Hi Buttercup -

Would you mind posting your daughter's symptoms and clues that she's struggling w/ a yeast/fungal overgrowth? That might also help hone the responses for her.

Thanks !

-p

AWESOME - thanks so much. This is very helpful.

I'm not sure if we've already discussed this and/or what remedies you've already tried so forgive me and please let me know -

But I think she has a classic problem with yeast/fungal overgrowth - sounds like you already suspect this. First, I'd start with reading through a discussion about yeast/fungal overgrowth in the "New to Lyme?" thread at the top of the page - here is a link:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275

So many MDs, Naturopaths and Lyme specialists aren't not well-informed about how to spot y/f overgrowth nor how to treat it effectively. It's probably the main cause of leaky gut, which can make treatment nearly ineffective. Depending on how severe her issues are, it might be wise to suspend Lyme & Co treatment until she can get the y/f overgrowth better under control and heal her gut. This is always a tough decision, because it can take awhile to heal the gut. But without proper absorption, that's a lot of expense and time down the drain. And without proper support of our immune system, no treatment will work.

Please let us know what she has tried for the yeast issues. The thread I posted above has a ton of critical info - saves me from typing it all out for each person but then we can talk about what might work best for your daughter. A lot of people on the forum have had success through various means so there's usually good feedback with these discussions.

My primary recommendation is that anyone on antibiotics needs to actively prevent yeast overgrowth. But once the overgrowth has already developed, there are a few but specific options that work - the probiotics and natural antifungals (which are awesome for prevention and maintenance) just don't seem to be as effective or work fast enough to combat an already existing problem.

There will be exceptions to this "rule" but I'd first start by getting an Rx for PURE Nystatin powder - there is a lot more about this in the thread I posted above. Leaky gut can allow the yeast to cause systemic issues throughout the body and there are systemic antifungal meds that can kick back symptoms pretty effectively, but since the overgrowth originates in the gut, a lot of people have luck w/ the Nystatin powder, which is much easier on the liver. Again, the thread above has a lot more info about treatment in it.

I had every single one of the symptoms you listed for your daughter - and MANY, many more, all due to yeast/fungal overgrowth. Some of them overlap w/ Lyme & Co so it can get a little confusing, which is yet another reason I suggest to people it's best to tackle yeast/fungal overgowth first, then heal your gut, then launch into Lyme & co tx.

In a nutshell, the sugar and carb cravings are the yeast begging for food - sugar and simple carbs like potatoes, white rice, flour - which the body processes just like sugar. The sooner we can get the overgrowth back under control, the cravings should resolve itself... and they are also pretty reliable barometers for yeast out of control again. And the remaining issues you listed are tied directly to leaky gut.

Hope this is helpful - please let us know if you have questions about the info in the thread and we can talk more specifically about your daughter's solutions.

-p

I had both dizziness and eye pain and so many other sx that literally stopped overnight w/ antifungals. Here's my theory about both -

I had significant yeast/fungal overgrowth in the head, including throat, mouth, sinuses, ears, eyes. So, I felt the dizziness was caused by y/f growing in the inner ear.

I would also feel a little pressure on the eyeballs, blurry and limited vision, floaters, and at times I'd have stabbing pain in my eyes - literally just a jab (that was so painful it would stop me cold, take my breath away) and then nothing for a day or two. My theory is that this is the yeast growing - it establishes roots into tissues and maybe this is where the pain comes from.

-p

Hi shanna -

Yeast is a BEAST. There are many, many strains and the systemic antifungals like diflucan and naturals like GSE, coconut oil are not effective against all of them. And yeast can become resistant to some antifungals if you take them too long. And, unless you eliminate all sugars from your diet, it's tough to get it under control, especially if you're on abx.

I know you've been here on the forum for awhile but if you haven't read the yeast/fungal overgrowth post in the "New to Lyme?" thread it has other info that might be helpful to you:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275

Give that post a good read and post any other questions you might have - maybe we can help with more specific responses.

-p

Hi kitty -

It might depend all on the person, the level of infection and/or how long it's gone untreated, the strains involved and also which antifungal...

But it's recommended that you rotate natural antifungals every 4 wks and don't take more than 2 at a time. I've not seen a limit warning on Rx antifungals regarding resistance, more than an urging to be kind to the liver w/ shorter durations.

I've also read that the yeast grows resistant to Rx less often or less easily than naturals but I'm not sure I understand why. And I've also read that yeast becomes resistant to Nystatin less often than anything else - not sure I understand why except that maybe it's because it is more "immediate", and most effective in the gut where the yeast is most accessible, so doesn't have to travel throughout the body.

It's best to start any antifungal one thing at a time so that it's easier to understand how you are reacting to it.

I have been on natural and Rx antifungals for a very long time. For me, what I've learned is if I don't have a die off reaction fairly soon after taking something, it's probably not effective against the strains involved. I don't think taking antifungals for weeks and weeks waiting for something to happen is a good idea - best to move on to something else.

Also, I've had different reactions to antifungals at different times. For instance, back in 2013 when I was struggling for over a yr with chronic bronchitis and sinusitis, Nystatin and diflucan did the trick and neither infection returned. But other yeast/fungal symptoms lingered through all kinds of natural antifungals until I went on Ketoconazole, which I stayed on for about a year. Then I stopped about 6 mos after all sx stopped.

But after my biofilm busting extravaganza back in Dec, the bronchitis and sinusitis knocked me off my feet again along with several of my typical yeast sx. I went back on the ketoconazole, Nystatin, and I cycled through a few naturals which helped some sx but not all. So this time around, there were different strains involved after peeling back another layer or 12 by busting the biofilms... or something, I'm not sure. It's possible I'd developed resistance to the ketoconazole but I think it's more that there are several strains involved.

What did work on just about everything was kicking up the Pure Cholestyramine.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 5/4/2017 10:08:28 AM (GMT-6)

Hi Lisa -

I talk about my journey a little bit in the thread I posted above:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=1606610&g=3644275#m3644275 let me know if you have any questions.

Recently, I started busting biofilms in December and broke new pockets of infection wide open... as well as new pockets of yeast/fungal issues. So I went back on the GSE, Nystatin and Ketoconazole but still had some lingering issues. And then I made a lot of progress with PURE cholestyramine.

-p

Hi tcoach1 -

I don't have a very scientific response for the IgG and IgM scores but I think that the Lyme microbe nullifies what science and medicine thinks it understands about immune response (which isn't a lot but is actually very little where Bb is involved... as Bb breaks all the rules).

Over and over again, and in my own experience, the testing for yeast/fungal overgrowth seems inadequate and inaccurate. It was for me. So, I encourage people to listen more closely to symptoms and how your body responds to various antifungal remedies.

MDs and NDs are often not much help. They seem to want to prescribe diflucan and have no idea about anything else. So sometimes we have to guide them through what to prescribe and why. So I tell people to first, ask for an Rx for PURE Nystatin powder - and I talk about why and what it is in more detail in that thread I posted above. The Nystatin is a local antifungal so sometimes we can solve the root cause of systemic infection just by nipping it in the gut where it starts.

For more advanced infections people sometimes like to add a systemic antifungal like diflucan but sometimes this means cycling through a few options to figure out what works best against which strains you have.

Another member here found a specialist in yeast/fungal treatment that you might be able to do phone consultations with - email me and I will share his contact info.

Regarding your Lyme sx of twitching, burning, weakness - those are neurological in nature. My Lyme-friendly neurologist has suggested that those kinds of sx can often be the result of inflammation, so I would explore anti-inflammatory options.

-p

Hi, I haven't read everything above, but I have been using Sanum products for more than 10 years.

I used to love them, these are the first products dr. K uses against candida and fungi.

As I'm super sensitive to most things, yep, I loved Sanum.

Since my lyme got dormant, I continued using Sanum, and they usually solved my candida rather fast, with foot baths and no-sugar-diet. I never stopped totally fruits or carbs, but Sanum could put these infections mostly dormant, anyway. That happened for years.

Of course, I needed detox, like with lyme, so loads of chlorella, bear garlic, sulphur contaning things, sometimes propolis, sometimes some infrared, omega 3, high protein diet, stuff like that.

As I'm in that candida war for about 30 years (no kidding), well, what I can say that it goes on and off with certain patterns (for me, at least).

It is totally part of immune deficiency, in my case, as it only comes back in winter, when the immune system is weaker, less vit D, less fresh fruits (vitamins)

I never went into chemicals (only at the very start, but I just know I hate these chemicals... even strong herbals cause me too much trouble), so I only did my treatment 'naturally', mostly with homeopathy (Sanum, some Pekana, some Heel products, some other products to support detox organs).

I also used the dr. K's KMT, with rife frequencies in the past, but it was way too weak for my candida problem...

After the years using Sanum, they stopped working too well.

The reason, say most homeopaths, is that Sanum is not dealing with the causes of immune weakness. It lures the immune system to attack pathogens, but it does not correct the basic problem: immune deficiency.

As I was too lazy to look into more treatments after my lyme went dormant (fed up with drs, treatments!), well I continued my lazy Sanum protocols for many years.

I bought, I think, EVERYTHING Sanum had, and even imported from abroad some Sanum that had disappeared from the market in Germany / Switzerland.

So really, I know all Sanum, I think, I tried almost all of their products, and I still use them, but not really for candida anymore. Not in the last 2, 3 years, I mean.

Mostly for other infections, Strep, Staph, Trichophyton, Notakehl for most viruses, etc. These products still amaze me, how fast recovery is.

Not for candida, though: not anymore.

I think candida is smart enough to change and now it reacts only mildly to Sanum. It takes many years though, for that to happen. So if you are new in candida, just go for Sanum. I recommend!

If you are more than a decade chronic, well, the only way out is to correct the whole milieu, I believe.

Heavy metal detox and EMR avoidance /protection, parasite cleansing, regulating ANS, stuff like that.


I ate all sorts of probiotics in my life, and now I swear by one: kimchi, home made. Amazing effects, in my case. And it is tasty, for me.

but as soon as cold comes, back is my skin candida.

Exactly what people call 'pernio' or 'chillblain', in my case, are surely candidal infections. They come with cold weather.

Every year, I get them in winter, but in the last years, the time and aggressiveness of candida is decreasing, surely. I am sick less months a year, and candida got less aggressive. Well. 30 years are 30 years.


So I'm still patiently trying new solutions.

--------------------------------

One thing for sure: if I attack candida FRONTALLY, meaning, with aggressive killers, then on top make an aggressive diet, it will only make my candida fight back with 10 times more virulence!

I swear by this pattern! The more aggressive you attack, the most pernicious it gets.

Candida can make spores and make the life a hell.


It's VERY MUCH LIKE Borrelia! Attack Borrelia too frontally, it simply makes cysts, and will make your life a bigger hell. At least, that was my experience.

Only gentle attack, by modulating the immune system had put Bb totally dormant for us home (now for 8 years dormant).

I'm still to find a cure for candida!

A couple of years ago, I found an amazing detox device, cheap, called the Violet Ray, and it helped reduce my candida quite fast (because it detoxed nerves, boosted my immune system somehow, as it made me soooo relaxed and gave me so much nice energy, like a battery charging device).

It does not kill candida, exactly, it just cleans the organs, relaxes and gives the body a boost of energy, so again, it attacks candida not frontally, but 'sideways' in a way.

I think I will also invest on a ionic detox foot bath to help boost the detox.

The last days, I'm trying a new strategy too with Vital Force tech products (I don't think you guys can have that easily there in the US, but I can buy them here in Europe). They also attack the problem by reducing stress, regulating the ANS, sympathetic - parasympathetic, and hormones... I'll let you guys know.

Hi Jinna -

Wow, you've had an a very difficult and interesting journey. You have certainly "run the gamut" as we like to say here in the US.

I am so glad you have found some success in your struggle and shared them here. The one sure thing about yeast/fungal overgrowth is that everyone experiences it a little differently. There are a few common solutions that we like to recommend, but there are always the real problem cases that require exhaustive exploration to solve.

I think you're suggesting an interesting approach - "slow and easy" although in reading your description I would describe it a little differently, as "measured and comprehensive". A broad approach is key w/ y/f overgrowth so I really love that. And I also love your emphasis on immune support. So very few of our battles can be fought without the full support and agreement of our immune system. And the key to that is that 70% of our immune system IS our GI so hut health is critical.

Thanks for sharing -

-p