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3 yr old bit by lyme pos tick

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Posted 5/10/2017 8:23 PM (GMT 0)
My three year old was bit three to four days ago.
Just got the results back from umass tick testing lab.
It is positive for Lyme.

Bite was theee days ago. Partially fed.
No symptoms.
What would you all recommend doing at this point.

I have chronic Lyme.
I have amox. Although unsure of dosage for his age. - turning three next month actually.

Should I give amox to him for five weeks .

Will it go to cyst?
Other options.
Posted 5/10/2017 9:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Lightlife -

I am SO SORRY about the bite. In the frustratingly strange world of Lyme, if someone is gonna get it, this is the way you'd want to find a bite/tick. If the tick has Lyme, the picture is so much clearer.

I want other parents and those more familiar w/ pediatric cases and are working w/ LLMDs who specialize in ped cases to weigh in, but I think most would agree that you should assume the kiddo has Lyme and proceed with various forms of tx.

Studies about cyst form are inconclusive in terms of the timing but I think getting him on abx ASAP is the primary concern. Once he starts on abx, yes, he could develop cyst forms - and there is some herbal support for that but not sure which is best for kids.

Be sure to support his tummy - probiotics, natural antifungals, no sugar, liver support, etc.

Please be sure to let us know how he is doing.

-p
Posted 5/10/2017 10:14 PM (GMT 0)
I will look up the amoxy dosage if you like - burrascano guidelines - give me a few minutes.
Posted 5/10/2017 10:17 PM (GMT 0)
So, it's 50 mg/kg/day divided into q8h doses.



No symptoms - treat for 4 weeks.

If he gets symptoms - then treat longer.


There isn't any recommendations for cyst with early lyme...I don't know if it's because it hasn't had a chance to form them?
Posted 5/10/2017 10:33 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Lightlife ,
Im so sorry to hear about your son, but I am so happy that you had the tick and were able to get it tested. Did you have UMass test for all the other co infections? I know they have different options for testing.

Remember his chances of preventing or stopping it are best now soon after bite. So that's good.

If he has issues with ABX , I would be prepared to start Herbal tinctures right away.

I wish you well and hoping for the best outcome for you both. Sincerely, Jo
Posted 5/10/2017 11:01 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
So, it's 50 mg/kg/day divided into q8h doses.



No symptoms - treat for 4 weeks.

If he gets symptoms - then treat longer.


There isn't any recommendations for cyst with early lyme...I don't know if it's because it hasn't had a chance to form them?


Girlie, I couldn't find q8h on the intro abbreviations list. Does that mean every 8 hours? Sorry.
Posted 5/10/2017 11:06 PM (GMT 0)
I don't have his weight. I believe the average is around 25 lbs and he is on the small side. I'd say 20 to 25 max
Posted 5/11/2017 12:06 AM (GMT 0)

julymorning said...

Girlie said...
So, it's 50 mg/kg/day divided into q8h doses.



No symptoms - treat for 4 weeks.

If he gets symptoms - then treat longer.


There isn't any recommendations for cyst with early lyme...I don't know if it's because it hasn't had a chance to form them?


Girlie, I couldn't find q8h on the intro abbreviations list. Does that mean every 8 hours? Sorry.

Yes, you're right, julymorning - it's every 8 hours. When I was on it...I wasn't that precise...I would take it at 8:00 a.m., 4:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m.
Posted 5/11/2017 12:18 AM (GMT 0)

Lightlife said...
I don't have his weight. I believe the average is around 25 lbs and he is on the small side. I'd say 20 to 25 max

okay let's do 25 lbs.

So 50 mg X 11 kg ( 25lbs is approx. 11kg)

that equals 550 mg per day. (please check all my math)

550 divided into 3 doses - would be approximately 175 mg every 8 hours.

***Note - Because amoxy has a short half life of approx. 1 hour another medication called Probenecid is often prescribed with it - this medication allows the amoxy to stay in higher concentration in the blood for longer time.

I do not know if the Probenecid is recommended for young children..you would need to discuss with the Dr.
Posted 5/11/2017 1:57 AM (GMT 0)
THANKYOU all.

My LLND thinks I should wait for symptoms. Mostly due to probs associated with antibiotics( gut /immune)
His dad has a Lyme pos tick and is waiting.

I'd rather treat so I have to use back stash of amox. Need to get more for next time. They seem to be doling it out slower and doing symptom watch.

There are so many this year and it's estimated 9o percent of ticks have the infection but not that many actually transmit. And then you could spend the long season on meds because it's likely you'll get another bite or two from pos ticks around here.Massachusetts.

I was almost talked into waiting but my instincts are leaning in other direction. Rock and hard place. Waiting until morning So I can watch for adverse reactions.

Thanks all.

Post Edited (Lightlife) : 5/10/2017 8:00:43 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/11/2017 2:03 AM (GMT 0)
Sorry about your child. You did good reacting quickly and taking it seriously.

Cover the bite with a glob of antibiotic ointment for a 24 hour period as soon as you can. It possibly can prevent a nematode coinfection if the tick is infected with these also.

Everyone feel free to recommend this. Its ok if you beat me to it.
Posted 5/11/2017 3:44 AM (GMT 0)
Noooooooo.......don't wait for symptoms.


"Get it Right, Treat the Bite" campaign - Look here (Pediatric LLMD Dr. Jones' site)




/sites.google.com/site/drjoneskids/treat-the-bite
Posted 5/11/2017 3:12 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sorry to hear this. I have 3 kids who have lyme and some co-infection. One of them was three when he was bit. I was advised the same to wait for symptoms bc none of ticks were engorged and/or attached longer than 24 hours. I still got them 30 days amoxicillin. They never got tell-tale Lyme symptoms. My 3 year old got sick like random stuff - a cold, a stomach virus with diarrhea - but he was also in school. He might mention that his foots hurts from time to time but nothing consistent. Another kid never had any real symptom until she developed sudden and severe anxiety about 3 months later. The other child did acknowledge that she had headache, stomach ache (I think anxiety related), stiff fingers and stiff neck but literally only when I listed the potential symptoms and she would respond yes or no. I think the symptoms are mild in the early stage so unless you are paranoid about lyme (which 3 year olds are not), they won't complain. Also, I found my younger kids like the 3-5 years old tend to rationalize their pains. So my 5 year old would say I twisted my ankle two nights in a row. I'll ask her if she saw it twist or does it just hurt like it was twisted? She'd say, my foot hurts so I must have twisted it."

My advice is not to wait. I would treat now and be as aggressive as you can be.
Posted 5/11/2017 3:47 PM (GMT 0)
I'm so very sorry to hear this!! But, I really can't tell you how relieved I am personally that you are going ahead with treatment!

I agree with your instincts - there's a reason there is a campaign named 'treat the bite' - it's because with early treatment (even if there is a risk of not having the actual infections) will possibly get you out ahead of the infections at an early stage. I simply can not express how badly I wish that my parents had known to treat for tick bites!! I wouldn't have had these infections for 40 years!

I think that any parent you talk to that truly understands the impact on one's life these infections have, that they too would suggest treatment as well. Stand your ground! Insist that you started treatment with good reason and insist on sticking to it!

And good for you!!
Posted 5/11/2017 5:18 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks everyone.

When we say treat. It is with amox for 4weeks correct?

The natropath is giving me the nosodes
and an herbal formula in glycerine and a script for more amox but said .. last time I have to get used to watch and wait or move.

I guess they are assuming symptoms will be obvious and they don't want people on antibiotics all season .

I'm worried either way.

Post Edited (Lightlife) : 5/11/2017 11:42:14 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/11/2017 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
Lymebug- so you kids took the thirty days but still developed chronic ? Is that right?

I am worried about making symptoms less obvious if I treat. And it still hanging on versus waiting for glaring symptoms.

You treated early with amox? For 30 days and still it wentchronic to point you couldn't rid it for years ??? What did you do then?

Post Edited (Lightlife) : 5/11/2017 11:44:28 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/11/2017 6:04 PM (GMT 0)
You can use astragalus for Lyme prevention instead of waiting for a tick to bite and then trying to get treatment.

But to wait for symptoms may mean chronic Lyme anyway. It's more common for that to happen than most realize. I am not trying to scare you into treatments (well, maybe a little bit) but more to caution you. Believe me, no one wants chronic Lyme. Having lived with these infections since the age of 7 (I'm 53 now), I can tell you that early treatment (even if it means treating when there isn't an infection sometimes) is a whole lot easier on the body - not to mention easier on our minds.
Posted 5/11/2017 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
Just started amox. Just hoping it works. Will do an herbal glycerine formula and nosodes starting in two days.

I'm with you guys. I just know this isn't going to be last bite for us this year. Will start preventative herbals. I will still want to do antibiotic .

Months every summer on antibiotics doesn't sound good.maybe rural living is too dangerous.
Posted 5/11/2017 6:17 PM (GMT 0)

Lightlife said...
Thanks everyone.

When we say treat. It is with amox for 4weeks correct?

The natropath is giving me the nosodes
and an herbal formula in glycerine and a script for more amox but said .. last time I have to get used to watch and wait or move.

I guess they are assuming symptoms will be obvious and they don't want people on antibiotics all season .

I'm worried either way.

Yes, 4 weeks when there are no symptoms present.

If we all could have caught it right after the bite..before symptoms..so many of us wouldn't be ill now.
Once symptoms happen...it is much more difficult to treat.

It is a LL Pediatric MD who is in support of the campaign "Get it Right...Treat the Bite".
Posted 5/11/2017 8:11 PM (GMT 0)
I'll be the devil here...

My daughter got her first bite at age 2, on her head.

Contrary to your son, she got so fussy the same day, even before we had found the tick.

Then started having tummy aches, and I knew the tick was infected.

As I had been fighting lyme for a year or more before that, I immediately put her on amoxy. After 5 weeks, she was in such a bad condition, only got worse and worse, her gut was in wrecks, she developed many lyme symptoms during the amoxy.

My lyme dr. made me stop amoxy immediately.

Stronger immune systems may fight well acute infection with amoxy. But weaker ones, like my daughter's, won't. On top, that amoxy destroyed her gut flora, it took her so many months to heal (if she ever healed...).

She developed many absorption problems, and I saw the damage during the years: more food allergies, nails not growing, she lost a tooth to a 'small' accident, stuff like that, showing her mineral absorption was bad.

Lyme is long gone, but we are still treating her gut, 8 years after lyme got dormant.

I think amoxy is a bad abx for lyme, because the ticks come with other coinfections. Amoxy fights none of the coinfections, if my memory is good. She developed many other symptoms from other coinfections, ended up anyway in wheel chair, unable to walk, full of pain, etc.

Years have gone, if I had to re-start it again, I would never give her amoxy, nor any antibiotics. There are so many other better alternatives, less gut-invasive, and that is where I would start. We got finally healed with photon therapy and nosodes, but that is another looong story.
Posted 5/11/2017 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
Just some suggestions: buhner herbs, some cowden tinctures, byron white, dr. K's suggestions with ozonated rizols, rife frequencies, ... homeopathic nosodes.

Then a lot of detox stuff, taken together with any antimicrobial therapies, plus usual supplements (magnesium, omega 3, vit D3, milk thistle, vit A, etc)
Posted 5/11/2017 8:24 PM (GMT 0)
Your post is a really good reminder to protect the GI system during any kind of treatment, Jinna.
Posted 5/11/2017 9:34 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Jinna. I'm at a loss. I can't even think straight. It back and forth. darned either way. The best choice seems to be making sure he has it before I do anything... but I've started amox... I'm just torn.

Post Edited (Lightlife) : 5/11/2017 3:37:28 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/11/2017 10:01 PM (GMT 0)
Please don't wait for symptoms - it is more difficult to treat then.

The tick tested POSITIVE for Lyme.

Please listen to ILADS member Dr Burrascano and Pediatric LLMD Dr Jones - they know what they're talking about.

If you don't want to treat with antibiotics you can do an herbal protocol.

Jinna - I'm so sorry for what happened to your daughter .
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