Herbs don't work, antibiotics hurt...how am i supposed to keep going?

You could try getting checked by a biological dds-that can be key.
I'm doing ten pass ozone-try ten pass and see if you herx

I hear your frustration. I'm on year 4 now of lyme +coinfection treatment, have been on every antiobtiotic oral and IV, have tried herbs, HbOt, antivirals, changed diet and Am stuck around 65% recovery.

Recovery definitely favors the persistent, although I know that is easier said than done. Hope you find something that works for you.

What herbs have you tried?

Consider bvt and or rife ..bees are cheap

Sometimes, it is not the treatment that fail, so to say... For example, the order to treat infections do count, in my experience.

Some herbs work now, then 2 weeks later, they don't. Then you change herbs, the new work.
After a couple of weeks, stop working.

This is natural, as critters keep changing, ecology changes too.

Then you come back to stuff that hadn't worked in the past, and they work perfectly!

The same with drugs: the order you use drugs/ herbs and mix of drugs or herbs count a LOT.

that is why I encourage people to try energy testing or some kind of EAV testing. The whole time, not just once or twice....

during lyme, I realized every 2 weeks, I had already changed almost everything I was doing: either added things, took off others, and certainly kept changing dosages.

Every 2 weeks, everything changed following these energy tests.

A bit like food: if you take the same food every day, after a while, your body will scream for a change, right?

Same happens with lyme treatment. At least for me.

I want to read the piroette blog/ website/book..you are amazing !
Gabee have you looked into bvt its about 15$ a week...?

Jinna said...

Some herbs work now, then 2 weeks later, they don't. Then you change herbs, the new work.
After a couple of weeks, stop working.

This is natural, as critters keep changing, ecology changes too.

Then you come back to stuff that hadn't worked in the past, and they work perfectly!

The same with drugs: the order you use drugs/ herbs and mix of drugs or herbs count a LOT.

I agree as I experience the same, although I know little about tests, but am learning and not afraid to look things up which are unfamiliar as well ask you all for insight.

What I interpreted as kidney fatigue was a big factor in having to stop and start medications again. But now I tolerate the same meds longer without the fatigue so I suspect it was an infection of the Kidneys that has improved or is gone.

I have only experienced Herxing early in the use of medication. Many times it is just in the first day. I prefer to herx so I know its doing something and then I use it with a bit more confidence in the future even though I am no longer herxing from it.

Revisiting Nystatin also caused a herx the first day of the multiple cycles I went back. I use it every once in a while to gauge progress and make sure I keep the ground I gained. The last few were single doses just to see if I herxed and didn't so I am not currently using it. Plus it is difficult to get so I have substituted with xylitol which also caused herx first use.

I tolerated higher doses of both Doxy and Itraconazole much better later down the road towards recovery for which I havent yet reached the destination but have made major progress.

Minocycline is taking a bit longer to get used to but getting easier.

Traveler said...

Jinna said...
Sometimes, it is not the treatment that fail, so to say... For example, the order to treat infections do count, in my experience.

Some herbs work now, then 2 weeks later, they don't. Then you change herbs, the new work.
After a couple of weeks, stop working.

This is natural, as critters keep changing, ecology changes too.

Then you come back to stuff that hadn't worked in the past, and they work perfectly!

The same with drugs: the order you use drugs/ herbs and mix of drugs or herbs count a LOT.

that is why I encourage people to try energy testing or some kind of EAV testing. The whole time, not just once or twice....

during lyme, I realized every 2 weeks, I had already changed almost everything I was doing: either added things, took off others, and certainly kept changing dosages.

Every 2 weeks, everything changed following these energy tests.

A bit like food: if you take the same food every day, after a while, your body will scream for a change, right?

Same happens with lyme treatment. At least for me.

I just wanted to address the 'every 2 week' changes with herbs. You aren't really allowing the herbs time to do what they can do if you are switching them every 2 weeks. Many of the herbs we use don't have any kind of response that you can 'feel' in your body, but that doesn't mean they aren't working.

Herbs generally need to be taken 4 - 6 weeks to know how they will work for you - unless there is an allergic reaction, of course. The bacteria do not hide from most of the herbals that are used, as they are not a direct attack on the bacteria, but rather help our immune system to do the job. That's why you can go back to them later and still have some improvements - they weren't done doing their job in your body.

Good point Traveler. This is the reason I am still using Tinidazole although I don't feel anything. I know its likely going to take months to work.

Magoo2: I am hoping to see a BDS in Costa Rica next week !

I too healed before Buhner's books came out, or he even had a webpage. I used the Chronic Tonic and healed all my infections in 2 years. It's fairly well explained in some of my threads, particularly the one listed below in my signature line. I did not rotate herbs - I was consistent in my use of the herbal combinations for the entire time I was in treatment - with the exceptions of changing/adding herbs for treatment of other infections.

For example - I started with the Chronic Tonic. It took me 3 months to get to a full dose of it, then Houttuynia was added to that mix to treat Bartonella - I stayed on the Chronic Tonic for 12 months and the Houttuynia for 9 months and cleared both Lyme and Bartonella. I used several different herbs for Babesia, and healed from that in one years time as well as any of the other infections I was carrying, like RMSF, Anaplasma, Ehrlichia and others.

So, while rotating herbs may work for a few, it won't work for the majority. Buhner states that herbs are not meant to be pulsed as well.

Hey Traveller!

Look what you wrote on that old thread¨above:

"We started treatment for Babesia, which proved to be quite stubborn for me. We used many herbs - often changing them every 2 weeks, tons of acupuncture and many changes in my diet to help me get through. This is also why it's taking me so long to put together what all I did for Babesia - there were so many herbs that were used to support the different organs I was having issues with, like my spleen, liver, (always) intestines, even my kidneys for a while."

It looks pretty much what I'm saying above!!!

And your Chronic Tonic is just Buhner's herbs in one go (with 1 or 2 added things!).


Look: you lived your whole life with lyme, and only got bad at 44, right?

I got first bitten in June 2005, and in September-October almost died!!

My daughter got bitten at 2 years old, and in a couple of months was in wheel chair! Before she was 4, she had got tick borne encephalitis, all coinfections my lyme doctor could test. Exactly like myself.

So, yep, if your immune system was in bad shape, you could STAND a FIXED mixed of herbs, like I could NEVER stand!

Any fixed amount of herbs would put me to crash. I had to measure each individually.

My immune system was bad, even though I rarely caught colds.
Dr. K. says that severity of symptoms are directly proportional to the amount of toxins.

Buhner says a bit different: the worse the immune system, the worse the symptoms.

So different stories, but not that different in the end.
You also got better with Buhner's herbs and said you kept changing babesia herbs EVERY TWO WEEKS!

The Bb herbs, it's true I didn't change much. I used to say back then that Buhner's herbs worked for Bb but not for coinfections.

It was these 2 coinfections that were making me nuts, as nothing I did seemed to stop their progression, specially after a new infected tick bite.

That 2 week change was exactly what I said!!! Like you!! (in my case it was for babs AND bart!!)

If you want to know what I did, here is a summary for my second babesial infection:

eHre's more or less what I did for this time babesial re-infection. I started having night sweats and strong brain fog in the 2nd night after tick bite in May 2007. I had nigh sweats every night for a while and that convinced me I had babesia again. ART tested positive (2 practioners) and my kinesiological tests too.

I took then (in May/part of June):
- homeopathic tick 'soup' from the tick that bit me (started potency 30C or so and went up to 65C) for about 2.5- 3 months

- ledum 200C - gets babs (few globules, once every couple of days)

- PC- Noni tincture (from Biopure, gets babs' cysts), 4-15 drops a day for about 3.5 months

- thyroid sarcode homeopathic for thyroid support (as my thyroid gets messed up everytime babesia is flaring, for about 3 months)

- iron supplements + iron homeopathic (also a babesial symptom; I get lower amounts of Ferritin in the blood very fast with babesia for 2.5 months)

- lots of cleansers: specially chlorella, bear garlic tincture, and loads of MSM, plus some lymph support (for that I use homeopathics mostly OR lymph drainage, but I keep reading red root can do wonders too).

This mix of cleansers kept my brain functioning. Sometimes I added chitosan, mucuna bean powder (intestines) and Destroxin. And also a mystery oil (I will call it Endoflex, but I'm not sure, rubbed on skin).

- frozen garlic (gets babs in the intestines very well; but it doesn't cross B/B barrier according to my tests)- 3 "00" capsules a day, after meals. It tested very good for acute phase (middle term: about 1.5 months or so)

- gardenia decoction (it was my main babesia killer, together with phellodendron decoction) (amount: was about 10-15 'fruits' a day for about 3 months)

- phellodendron: gets babesia and other stuff, according to my tests it crosses b/b barrier. (I took decoctions for more than 2 months, 1-2 soup spoons). It has berberine as a chemical component (it gives to it its yellow color).

- Artemisia annua decoction: twice a day (it tests better than powder; I took it for less than 1 month; then was on and off when it tested, but not too much).[it can't be taken together with other decoctions]

- astragalus: on and off, tested good for babesia acute infection.

- KMT program 2 (babesia and borrelia). (on and off)

- bee pollen (helps to get bab's cysts; I took on and off, when it tested, short term)

- artemisinin low doses (about 300mg/400mg a day for about 5 days, then pause for 3 days then continue for about 3 weeks) (artemisinin doesn't get cysts)

- pau d'arco tincture tested once as babs cyst buster (but I didn't retest it to check; I use it still for candida; this time reinfection, it was useful, it tested on and off).

- grapefruit seed extract: tested as babs cyst buster too, but only in the GI tract (it doesn't cross b/b barrier); it never tests good for too long (few days only)

- gervao (rain-tree): gets babs' cysts: it tested very good as it gets so many other things, I took it for about 2 months (or more).

- neem tested good against babesia, but my body can't take it, so I didn't take it.

- cats claw + Japanese knotweed: always (I don't know if they get babs, but I was on these for the whole time).

-------------------------
In June, when I was getting desperate I couldn't get rid of babesia with low artemisinin again, I decided to do a high dose treatment of artemisinin (1,000mg/ day) and high doses turmeric (6 teaspoons/ day) in combo for 3 days, repeated in two weeks interval to lower the number of critters.

Turmeric hits hard on the stomach, so I did with full stomach, while artemisinin I used with empty stomach.

First high dose treatment I herxed immensely. I felt very toxic.

Second treatment, I almost didn't herx, nor felt ANY toxicity in 90% of the time (except for the first dose of 400mg artemisinin in the first day, then NOTHING in the following 2 days).

I also took homeopathic Pyrogenum 200K, as it tested good to get babs and babs' cysts (3 globules/ day for a week).

I thought I was rid of it, but symptoms came back fast after stopping artemisinin.

In about 2 days, I felt fatigue, chills, brain fog, etc.

Exactly like my first babesial infection.

Babesia kept coming back and back again.

-------------
about July:

- amargo (rain-tree): gets babesia (it doesn't cross b/b barrier, it seems, only gets babs in the GI tract and in blood). [watch out for side effects though, better to test for each organ and use it only temporarily] It's used for malaria. It is to be used very short term (less than artemisinin).

I took 2 "00" capsules if I remember well, but it's too strong.

- gervao + phellodendron continued

- turmeric lower doses

- pc-noni: 15 drops or so

- KMT program 2 on and off
----------------------------

The babesial load was much smaller by the end of July, but still there.

That's when I discovered CARDAMON by chance. That was what was missing to get the rest of cysts this time.

I introduced cardamon seeds in powder (mixed in my tea, 2-3 times a day), and I think my babesia hated it. I felt my brain clearing while still having my cup of tea with cardamon.

Then few days on cardamom + pc-noni, I finally got an EM rash, which meant, borrelia surfacing again.

Exactly like with my first babesial infection. Once I got babesia down (that time, only with PC-Noni), borrelia surfaced.

This time, I needed the PC-Noni and the cardamon to get it down.

-------------
So AFTER the aggressive treatments above, my cyst treatment was:

- lonicerae caulis decoction: test good against babs and bart (I took it short term, about a week or so; it can be mixed with gardenia + phellodendron decoction).

- Allicin from Wonderlabs (2), milder than frozen garlic;

- cardamon in powder in my tea (2-3 times a day),

- ledum homeopathic 200K once every 3 days or so, 3-4 globules each time (tests against babs and borrelia) (it must have a 10 minute interval from everything else, before and after intake).

- Pc-Noni was testing at that time at about 15-35 drops a day (I put in a bottle and drank separately from cats claw; 2 times a day).

This is what did the trick this time.

I'm not treating babesia since about middle of August.

But I know it can still be hiding as ALL of my other coinfections (and inclusive borrelia).

This IS a messy and long report! BAbesia was the most difficult coinfection for me to get rid of this time. I'm still crossing fingers for it not to come back as I HATE babesia!

------------------
This was back in 2007, and it didn't come back!!! So far.

Hi, Marcipicus - welcome to our community!

Thank you for sharing the links re: rifing.


So is your sister in remission now?