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What has worked for you- herbs vs meds for chronic Lyme?

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Posted 9/2/2017 1:27 AM (GMT 0)
Anyone have opinions on which is better for long term treatment?

I realize it can work differently for different people but it'd be interesting to see how many people have had success with which method.

Thanks

Post Edited (Xelaetaks) : 9/1/2017 7:31:23 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/2/2017 3:23 AM (GMT 0)
Well, I haven't recovered from anything yet and am just starting out in treatment, but I will share my experience thus far as well as my opinion on the matter.

I was sick for years before learning it was due to Lyme and co-infections. Once I found out, I planned to take antibiotics for 30 days to see what would happen. I took minocycline and was told by my doctor to stop on the 7th day, as it made all my symptoms worse. After stopping, I continued to get increasing inflammation in my joints and tendons, muscle weakness, and loss of stamina. That went on for a couple of months. I was left more physically disabled than I ever had been before I took the antibiotic. It was Feb 1st when I stopped the antibiotic.

On June 1st, I started treating myself with herbs using Stephen Buhner's protocol. I have very strong reactions to many of the herbs, even at tiny doses, so I know they are doing something. I realize now that treatment for me is going to be a long, slow process. I have much more faith in the herbs, as I know they are capable of doing far more than just killing bacteria. According to Buhner, there are herbs that can remodulate the cytokine immune response, which I desperately need. There are also many herbs that can repair the damage done to various organs in the body, including nerves and endothelial cells.

I have also read that a percentage of people who are treated with antibiotics, even long term, relapse after stopping the antibiotics, and that some doctors advocate keeping them on antibiotics indefinitely. My gut instincts just cannot agree with that. Something is very wrong there. IMO, medical experts need to do some serious searching to understand WHY people are relapsing in the first place instead of just holding onto an "antibiotics forever" approach. I don't think anyone knows yet WHY some people relapse or don't get well at all. Most likely there is more than one reason and those reasons are probably not the same for each person.

Buhner does say that there are also some who do not get better with herbs. No method out there comes with 100% money back guarantee.

I'm strongly of the opinion that herbs are better for long term treatment. If I were an otherwise healthy person who had a new tick bite/rash, I don't think I would hesitate to take antibiotics for that. Knowing what I know now, I would probably take the antibiotic for 30 days along with herbs and continue the herbs for a couple of months beyond that.
Posted 9/2/2017 4:33 AM (GMT 0)
I'm rather new to treatment (4 months), but I think I'm one of the rarer ones that hasn't taken any antibiotics at all. I've been using herbs along with the standard clean diet, vitamins/supplements, acupuncture, NIR sauna and IV ozone. I had read and heard a lot of negatives about antibiotics in terms of damaging organs, so I rolled the dice on herbs knowing I could switch to abx should I not get results from herbs. The herbs are definitely helping, but the biggest boost has been ozone.
Posted 9/2/2017 1:40 PM (GMT 0)
Abx plays a role. I'm taking abx and herbs. I'm doubling down on killing the bugs while also taking all the supportive herbs.

One thing even the biggest abx advocates absolutely can't claim is that abx supports the body beyond killing. It doesn't. And to overcome Lyme organ support, inflammation support, cellular support and detoxing support is needed. Abx does ZERO of this.

But abx can kill, so it's in the mix. Buhner even states herbs helps the abx work more effectively for various reason. I'm 6 weeks into using abx and plan too for an additional 6 weeks for a total of 12 weeks. Then I'm done and will switch to herbs only.
Posted 9/2/2017 1:55 PM (GMT 0)
I think your infection is very deep into your system since you got very toxic so quickly. You sound like me in the beginning. 3 weeks into doxy and I was worse than ever. However, I just stayed low dose and really started detoxing and things got better. It will just be low and slow. I did 11 months of antibiotics Doxy 12 weeks then pulse Minocycline/Tinidozole very low dose. At that point, I was only having vibrating and elbow pain. I added Buhner herbs to help with inflammation and concentrated on detox. There is no way around it, getting better requires putting up with some uncomfortable side effects (in my option) as you rid yourself of the toxins.

I think the relapse occurs when the bugs come out of their cyst forms or hatch from the biofilms. Mainstream doctors are just now understanding biofilms as a real problem for treating chronic bacterial infections. Lyme is no different. And it's even sneakier.

During my antibiotics, I started with 1 drop of Cat's claw and herxed horribly (I have neuro lyme) and didn't take it for months. Now I can take 2 droppers full 18 months later. JK has always made me feel better and I will probably take it the rest of my life. I'm around 95% with the occasional weird "flare" that occurs for no rhyme or reason, probably random mold exposure or a small colony of something hatching. Candida and mold are my bigger issues anyway.

I say listen to your body. You'll figure out a system that works.
Posted 9/2/2017 2:08 PM (GMT 0)
I'm doing both. I'm not on ABX - my LLMD doesn't think I need it, but we use pharmaceuticals for some of the other difficult co-infections and fungal infections - Candida, Tinea, HHV6, EBV. But I also take herbs for the co-infections. It's a two pronged attack.
Posted 9/2/2017 2:53 PM (GMT 0)
I've been using herbs only for most of my treatments and I have managed to participate in life for much of that time. I did start out on abx for the first year of treatment - and I was not able to participate in life for long once I started them, so for me, the choice was obvious.

Chronic Lyme disease is a relapsing/remitting disease in and of itself, so while some may get reinfected and end up back in treatment, others simply have gone as long as they could in their 'remission' state is all. At that point, the body possibly needed more support (thinking of immune support/detoxing support/hormonal support/ or any other number of things), or there simply was/is no way of preventing the relapsing for some. All scary thoughts we don't like hearing, but we get quite a few members back here that have relapsed.

The other possibility is that, like right now in the area I live in, the next 'wave' of ticks have hatched. These things are so very small that you can't get tweezers on them, you can't get your fingernail under them, so you have to just scratch them off. They can literally be as small as the period at the end of this sentence. These little tiny ticks (nymphal ticks) can also spread these infections, so it would be easy to think you were bit by a mosquito, or not notice at all.
Posted 9/2/2017 5:17 PM (GMT 0)
herbs vs meds ?

More importantly, the more chronic you've had this- the more important to treat the entire body and make a better , "new you", not just kill the bugs.

I tried some herbs, but relied on ABX since it has shorter learning cure and an LLMD laid out the plan.

He insisted I start with treating leaky gut first and said all lymies have this. Treating the gut prepared me for ABX, thus I had zero gut issues with abx. Since I was chronc w lyme for decades , LLMD said waiting two months for ABX made no difference and was better to treat gut first.

Herbs sounds great, but there is a lot of learning and too many options, my brain was to fried to take that on at the time.

If it comes back, I'll maybe try herbs with help here.

I did do plenty of other natural supplements to support various body systems- but you need that with abx or killer herbs.
Posted 9/3/2017 12:22 PM (GMT 0)
If you're going to be takind herbs and or abx, its important to take biofilm busters like nattokinase. If youre not taking biofilm busters during treatment, plan on relapsing in a couple months.
Posted 9/3/2017 6:50 PM (GMT 0)

gfields said...
If you're going to be takind herbs and or abx, its important to take biofilm busters like nattokinase. If youre not taking biofilm busters during treatment, plan on relapsing in a couple months.

Do you know if that can be mixed with all or most herbs from the popular Lyme protocols?
Posted 9/3/2017 7:22 PM (GMT 0)

Xelaetaks said...

gfields said...
If you're going to be takind herbs and or abx, its important to take biofilm busters like nattokinase. If youre not taking biofilm busters during treatment, plan on relapsing in a couple months.

Do you know if that can be mixed with all or most herbs from the popular Lyme protocols?

Yes - but you don't take the Nattokinase or Serrapeptase with food as they will work as a digestive aid instead. So empty stomach.
Posted 9/3/2017 9:58 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

Xelaetaks said...

gfields said...
If you're going to be takind herbs and or abx, its important to take biofilm busters like nattokinase. If youre not taking biofilm busters during treatment, plan on relapsing in a couple months.

Do you know if that can be mixed with all or most herbs from the popular Lyme protocols?

Yes - but you don't take the Nattokinase or Serrapeptase with food as they will work as a digestive aid instead. So empty stomach.

Thanks. Will keep that in mind.
Posted 9/4/2017 1:20 AM (GMT 0)
I choose bvt ,rife ,herbs and abx ...in various degrees over 2 years ..almost fully functional again .used daily plasma rife, anti parasiticals like arminsin ,iver ,alinia ,herbs like smilax ,barberry ,lomatium, houtynia, andrographis
some supps but mostly royal jelly and bee pollen .iv methods used and of value
curcumin ,rocephin ,silver , h202,ozone,uvb ,but glutithione and vit c feel the best .
When i lok at my kansas buddies blood microscopy while he is on 3 abx.and the spiŕochetes are unphased .same ive seen on my own with rocephin and zith /www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJBBHZSCdb8 do it all even all together.burrascano guidelines are no joke
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