HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Chinese Herbs and Buhner Protocol Combined..(trying to blast this stuff out of me)

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 6/27/2015 3:21 AM (GMT 0)
These are all the ingredients in a tea i drink, 1 tablepoon twice a day, I tried to do some research and see what the herbs are for seeing how my herbalist said she was treating my babs,bart and lyme together.

Treats Babs
- Qing Hao
-Fu Shen
-San Leng
-Dang Shen
- Chai Hu
-Deng Xin Cao
-Bai Shao
-Da zao
-Gan cao

Treats Lyme
-Gui Zhi
-Shi Chang Pu
-Huang Qi
-Ci Wu Jia
-Ban Lan Gen
-Deng Xin Cao
-He Shou Wu
-Lu Gen

Treats Bart
- Chai Hu
-Deng Xin Cao
-Lu Gen
-Sha Ren
-Gan cao
-Da zao

I was doing the Bunher protocol of Sida acuta, Alchornea cordifolia, and Cryptolepis sanguinolenta blend and Hawthorn tincture and Houttuynia, Im doing 1/4 teaspoon of all of these 3x a day and was handling this fine a little herx nothing too bad, iv been on herbs for a long time.

I tried to mix that above Bunher treatment with the tea i drink and i slept for 3 hours after woke up with nausea and with unreal head pressure

Im looking for someone who understands Chinese herbs to see if anything from my formula tea is basically doing the same as the bunher protocol herbs i take, because i dont want to be taking too much

Anyone good with chinese meds and what there are used for to shed some light on my list...
Posted 6/27/2015 6:16 PM (GMT 0)
bump
Posted 6/27/2015 6:18 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sorry, Myeezy. I've been busy so far, but I was going to take a stab at this since I'm familiar with Chinese Medicine - I just haven't gotten around to it until now!! Give me some time to do a bit of research to see what I can come up with.

Hopefully others will chime in though!!!
Posted 6/27/2015 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
thanks traveler i know you got well with herbs
Posted 6/27/2015 7:18 PM (GMT 0)
This will take a bit of time, as I don't have good Chinese Herbal books beside me and I'm trying to stick to only those Chinese Medicine sites that I know have good information. i wish I could just walk in to my old doc that helped me to heal the first time around - she would be the perfect one to be asking as she is a Master Western Herbalist, Master Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioner and and incredibly gifted acupuncture therapist.

But I will do my best. Please take it all with a grain of salt. LOL!
Posted 6/28/2015 12:43 AM (GMT 0)
Bump
Posted 6/28/2015 8:12 PM (GMT 0)
Bump
Posted 9/12/2017 1:53 PM (GMT 0)
I would like to hear that too, since we are using chinese herbs (some are listed in this post) to treat Lyme. I hope Traveler will return to this thread smile
Posted 9/12/2017 2:47 PM (GMT 0)
English to Chinese
Sida Acuta - Huang hua ren
Alchornea cordifolia - I can't seem to find this one.
Houttuynia - Yu xing cao fen
Hawthorn - Shan Zha
Cryptolepis - not sure on this one. 2 options.

Personally, I would stick with just what your herbalist ordered. My reasoning is because herbs are medicine and mixing medicines can be risky. You can't think of them as "just herbs" and they are fine to take in any dose or time. You could be counteracting one of your herbalists' herbs by taking something that is not in synergy with the others.

Just my opinion. Many of our medicines come from herbs. Foxglove is Digitalis and used for heart attacks. This is a flower that grows in gardens. White willow bark is how we got to find aspirin. I had a house plant called Dieffenbachia eons ago. I friend came over and explained that if my child or cat got ahold of that plant it could temporarily paralyze their throat. Plants aren't all innocent.
Posted 9/12/2017 3:13 PM (GMT 0)

PeteZa said...
English to Chinese
Sida Acuta - Huang hua ren
Alchornea cordifolia - I can't seem to find this one.
Houttuynia - Yu xing cao fen
Hawthorn - Shan Zha
Cryptolepis - not sure on this one. 2 options.

Personally, I would stick with just what your herbalist ordered. My reasoning is because herbs are medicine and mixing medicines can be risky. You can't think of them as "just herbs" and they are fine to take in any dose or time. You could be counteracting one of your herbalists' herbs by taking something that is not in synergy with the others.

Just my opinion. Many of our medicines come from herbs. Foxglove is Digitalis and used for heart attacks. This is a flower that grows in gardens. White willow bark is how we got to find aspirin. I had a house plant called Dieffenbachia eons ago. I friend came over and explained that if my child or cat got ahold of that plant it could temporarily paralyze their throat. Plants aren't all innocent.

this brings up a good point.

Is Buhner's core Lyme protocol synergistic with his Bart protocol?
Posted 9/12/2017 3:21 PM (GMT 0)
I don't think "Blasting" them with herbs is the best approach. Try slow and steady, and ramp up gradually to your own tolerance levels.

If you really want to blast them try this:

10/29/12 to 1/20/13: Zithromax, IV Rocephin (2x/4 days/wk), Actigall, Mepron x2, Bactrim DS, Tindamax
Posted 9/12/2017 6:33 PM (GMT 0)
I'm an acu and am happy to chime in here. However, this is not intended to confuse or throw anyone off their particular treatment plan, but just to provide a little insight since some are asking for it: In Traditional Chinese medicine( TCM), a diagnosis is based on patterns, not specific diseases or conditions. The patterns may include an excess of yin or yang (hot or cold), qi (vitality), or blood stasis (blood not moving, clumpy) just to give an example. Of course, there are many, many other patterns. An acu would never diagnosis a patient with lyme or bart or diabetes for that matter, it just doesn't work that way. For example, there are two people infected with Lyme , one is qi (vitality) and yang deficient (cold) , while the other is yin deficient (heat) and has blood stasis ( sticky, excess) as part of their diagnostic pattern. A person with lyme and co-infections could easily have all of these diagnostic patterns in their profile. And the patterns can and do change over time. In Chinese Medicine there's a saying, " One disease, many patterns." This indeed holds true. That being said, if you look in the Chinese Materia Medica, herbs are classified in groups according to the patterns they address. For example, huang qi happens to be an herb that tonifies qi and can energize, while qing hao is a yin deficiency heat clearing herb and it has that effect. Of course, that only describes the individual herbs and their primary attributes, but when combined in a formula it gets a bit more complicated than that. Sometimes herbs are put in a formula for their secondary attributes. It's very much a balancing act putting formulas together, but generally speaking, chinese herbs are designed to work synergistically and are usually not usually prescribed as a stand alone treatment. There now. I'm sure I've confused everyone. smile
Posted 9/12/2017 6:38 PM (GMT 0)

herbalwhiz said...
I'm an acu and am happy to chime in here. However, this is not intended to confuse or throw anyone off their particular treatment plan, but just to provide a little insight since some are asking for it: In Traditional Chinese medicine( TCM), a diagnosis is based on patterns, not specific diseases or conditions. The patterns may include an excess of yin or yang (hot or cold), qi (vitality), or blood stasis (blood not moving, clumpy) just to give an example. Of course, there are many, many other patterns. An acu would never diagnosis a patient with lyme or bart or diabetes for that matter, it just doesn't work that way. For example, there are two people infected with Lyme , one is qi (vitality) and yang deficient (cold) , while the other is yin deficient (heat) and has blood stasis ( sticky, excess) as part of their diagnostic pattern. A person with lyme and co-infections could easily have all of these diagnostic patterns in their profile. And the patterns can and do change over time. In Chinese Medicine there's a saying, " One disease, many patterns." This indeed holds true. That being said, if you look in the Chinese Materia Medica, herbs are classified in groups according to the patterns they address. For example, huang qi happens to be an herb that tonifies qi and can energize, while qing hao is a yin deficiency heat clearing herb and it has that effect. Of course, that only describes the individual herbs and their primary attributes, but when combined in a formula it gets a bit more complicated than that. Sometimes herbs are put in a formula for their secondary attributes. It's very much a balancing act putting formulas together, but generally speaking, chinese herbs are designed to work synergistically and are usually not usually prescribed as a stand alone treatment. There now. I'm sure I've confused everyone. smile

I agree. Which is why Buhner has specific protocols because it's synergy.

He even emphasis that it's the synergy that gets the job done, not any herb alone.
Posted 9/12/2017 6:58 PM (GMT 0)
herbalwhiz,

Thank you for the valuable explanation of Chinese herbs. I was not aware of how that worked. I thought you're explanation was very clear and easy to understand. Sounds like Chinese herbs and Buhner protocol is kind of like comparing apples to oranges.
Posted 9/12/2017 7:29 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...
herbalwhiz,

Thank you for the valuable explanation of Chinese herbs. I was not aware of how that worked. I thought you're explanation was very clear and easy to understand. Sounds like Chinese herbs and Buhner protocol is kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

I thought Buhner herbs are Chinese medicine/herbs.

Me confused.
Posted 9/12/2017 7:39 PM (GMT 0)

dacarte3 said...

I thought Buhner herbs are Chinese medicine/herbs.

Me confused.

I didn't mean the herbs themselves were like comparing apples to oranges. I meant the approach. Herbalwiz was was saying the Chinese prescribe herbs based on what they perceive the state of the body to be, whereas Buhner's protocols are based on the infections and what they do to the body.
Posted 9/12/2017 8:41 PM (GMT 0)
It is comparing apples to oranges... But not in a bad sense!!

Buhner is thinking not in terms of energies (heat, humidity, stagnation, whatever used in Chinese medicine), but in terms of immune cells, inflammatory cytokine storms, rebuilding tissue lost to infections, he chooses herbs that cross the BBB in systemic ways etc.

The approach is totally different but I don't think one is correct, while the other not. Both are different ways to treat lyme.

Both use synergy of herbs in different ways.

If you go treat TCM, adding Buhner's herbs may mess the whole treatment.

If you go treat Buhner, maybe the TCM practitioner will not agree with certain herbs because they cool you too much, or whatever reasons he sees as causative of illness.

Buhner treats infections, immunity, damage.

TCM treats the whole body's energies, so that it brings back health on its own.

That is a bit too simplified, but I feel it's easier to explain like that...

Think that acupuncture is part of herbal treatment in TCM and you understand HOW TCM differs from approaches such as Buhner's or Cowden's...

Having said that, I know that TCM is also rich in antimicrobial herbs, so it may be not really that simple to 'separate' the approach the way I'm doing, but ... I hope something makes sense!!!smile
Posted 9/12/2017 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
It makes sense. I think it is comparing apples to apples, just two different kinds of apples not necessarily two totally different fruit.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply