lymerix

I am trying to understand the Lymerix vaccine issue.

I have seen LymeCryme and other youtube videos about Lymerix, but I still don't fully understand what the issue is. I'm trying to break down their message for a ninkumpoop like myself.

It sounds as though they're saying that the Lymerix vaccine has this protein in it called OspA. Apparently, this is the same protein that the spirochetes produce and shed off from their skin. The OspA protein does stuff like turn off your immune system and inflames the brain, which leads to encephalitis.

The part that I don't understand is, OK, these people received the Lymerix vaccine that had the OspA protein in it. Presumably, the vaccine did not contain live spirochetes, just the OspA protein. So, I could understand these people getting sick for a couple of months, and having their immune systems impacted for a couple of months, but why would these people develop chronic lyme disease, like what we have? My thinking would be that eventually the body would purge the OspA protein from the body and recover, and they would no longer have chronic Lyme.

It makes sense to me that people who have an active spirochete infection would develop chronic lyme, because the spirochetes are constantly producing OspA in our bodies, and it's constantly making us sick. But the folks who got the vaccine only had one dose of OspA, which presumably would be purged from their body after 6 months or something. So why would they develop chronic lyme?

Yes, I just caught on to something about it being fungal. The speaker is strange because she talks at a very high level, like you're supposed to understand all of her inside jokes, but I have a lot of trouble piecing together what she's talking about. She's obviously very well educated on the subject and has done tons of research. It would be nice if she could explain it on a more basic level for dummies like me.

10:30 - fungal antigens from borrelia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDc2Fj-H-8

I wonder if she's saying that OspA is somehow a fungus that lives on the spirochete? But then I thought it was a protein. Very confused.

In this video, at 2:06 they talk about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmS5hXimfps

We know OspA is Pam3Cys, a fungal antigen and the opposite of a vaccine. It does not cause antibodies. It causes sepsis and post-sepsis with all the reactivated herpesviruses (and other microbial tolerances, which are the REAL Great imitators.

.....

Yes, exactly. I would really like them to explain it as if I'm 5 years old. It's confusing. Maybe if we all put our heads together we can kind of tease out their meaning in a more basic form. So, they're thinking that this is actually a fungal or viral infection? I haven't gotten to the virus part yet.

Post Edited (gfields) : 9/24/2017 8:09:00 PM (GMT-6)

Here she kind of explains it more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHoT9uhkEo

,,,

Oh, cool, Ill check it out.

...

So it sounds like she's saying we're actually sick from things like Epstein Barr virus. I had testing for Epstein Barr, and it came back positive, but my doctor told me not to worry about it, because everyone has it.

Post Edited (gfields) : 9/24/2017 8:43:48 PM (GMT-6)

The explanations shared in here posts are pretty accurate!

The argument is that the key issue with OspA is that it does not create an immune reaction as intended for vaccine purposes. Instead, it triggers an immune dysfunction which resembles autoimmunity and Lyme symptoms. The fungal component of how the protein behaves is what I think they are claiming is the active or impactful agent.

But here's what you need to remember/ the vaccine did not affect everyone this way. Some people had no adverse reactions.

And a few other points to keep in mind:

- there were several problems with the vaccine - not just this OpsA issue.

- not everyone agrees with the science presented with LymeCryme presentations and I can't speak to the science. Some agree that the OpsA was a problem but don't agree with the LymeCryme statements (this is important--will come back to this).

- you also have to keep in mind that those relatively low numbers of people harmed by the vaccine (due to several problems with it) went up against Big Pharma and the Lyme cabal and this was before the anti anti-vaxxer campaign was so well-perfected by the powers that be. They learned a lot (and the mfrs lost a lot of $) from this vaccine failure.

Subsequently just about everything you read and hear about why it failed includes very little of the truth--just like everything else about Lyme. Most people aren't microbiologists and we rely very heavily on information provided by others---the Lyme cabal is counting on that to make it difficult to understand so that they can continue to blame those harmed, not the vaccine or the science.

These "disinformation agents" are carefully planted inside the advocacy groups in order to hijack the efforts to challenge authority and (mis)direct (mis)guide those efforts. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it simply succeeds in causing problems, confusion, distraction, etc. and often, the advocates start arguing and the advocacy falls apart. I think this might be one problem with the fractures within the primary Lyme advocacy group over the years.

With highly controversial topics like Lyme, beware of everything you're told, including the "alternative versions that claim to challenge the authority's version...they are often infiltrated by disinfo agents, for lack of a better term.

- another problem with the vaccines was the manipulation of data used in development and it's been too long since I've studied it so I lack detail but the methodology and metrics used in the development process were manipulated to adjust qualifying ranges, etc. in order to achieve better rsults (after he fact).

- the other primary issues with the vaccine involve the bad science it was developed from. This is the same science that underpins the manipulated vaccine trials, problems with the serology tests, the IDSA tx guidelines, etc.

This bad science or "pseudo-science" was designed to reflect a narrow version of the way in which Bb manifests into Lyme disease---the Lyme cabal or IDSA version. This version is narrowly defined by the development of the EM rash and arthritic joints. That is what qualifies a diagnosis (the tests) and what they based "successful treatment " on. And nearly all other common manifestations of Bb and their associated sx were discounted.

The vaccine trial subjects were also qualified in this same manner - only EM rash and arthritic joints were included as disqualifying symptoms along with the faulty serology tests. And then, the trial periods were cut short so that any sx that developed after a reasonable period of time (which also commonly occurs) were also discounted.

And of course, for those who developed sx during the trial period, no sx other than EM rash and the arthritis were considered as indications of vaccine failure in those few cases. The development of ANY of the other sx was ignored. These strategies were used to create the fictitious "success rate" promoted by the pharmaceutical company. As well as the claims against the lying, trouble-making and anti-vaxxer harmed vaccine recipients.

- and a smaller problem is that some people who got the vaccines probably already had Bb since the qualifying factors were those two sx and a negative serology test...

Now, I'm sure that even these points aren't the whole story or fully describe the reasons for failure. Hope that's helpful.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 9/24/2017 10:09:32 PM (GMT-6)

Thanks Pirouette. Yes, that does help!

I really hope elana cook saved PDFs for all those references on her hard drive. A lot of those links no longer work, and that is very incriminating evidence. I think the "powers that be" went back and tried to cover their tracks and take down whatever they could.

....

I have a funny feeling that the OspA theories are truthful. I think it would explain a lot of my symptoms, and the reasons why I can't get better. I do feel like I have AIDs. I remember hearing people in the 90s on MTV describing what it was like to have AIDs, and I definitely feel exactly like their descriptions. Some people with lyme say they always knew they'd get better. I never had that thought/feeling.

I don't understand why the gov't and MSM bent over backwards in the 90s to cure AIDs, but they are absolutely repressing Lyme. Why would they do that?

....

If we come to the conclusion that, we are in fact sick due to defective B cells, there must be therapies that we can pursue to fix this. Can't we look under a microscope, and see if our B cells are defective? Can't we have a blood infusion with someone else's B cells? Could we have cell replacement therapy?

Why are we all barking up the wrong tree with antibiotics and herbs that don't work, and only make us sicker? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Would an AIDs cocktail work for us, or is that only for impacted killer T cells?

....

It also makes me wonder if doctors like Horowitz are in on this thing. He's supposed to be the lyme guru. Is he purposely pointing us in the wrong direction? He's done tons of research, and surely he's come across things about OspA. In his tome of a book, Why can't I get better? he mentions OspA on one page, and barely says anything about it at all. Maybe the reason I can't get better is because we have supposed "experts" on lyme pointing us in all the wrong directions.

....

Kelly Osbourne did stem cell replacement. I wonder if that allows your body to transform the stem cells into new healthy B cells. I guess you'd need to get hyperthermia first to make sure you killed all the spirochetes, so they don't keep shedding OspA, and then you'd get stem cell replacement, and hopefully get B cells from that. Or I wonder if you could get a blood transfusion and take someone else's B cells.

Post Edited (gfields) : 9/24/2017 11:28:46 PM (GMT-6)

Yes, I have lost all faith in the medical community and our gov't. Not to mention "insurance" companies. The only thing they insure is the size of their bank accounts.

It really makes me angry that I have been sick for so long, doing all this research, only to realize it was all in vane because I was looking in the wrong place. Not to mention, we were deceived by people who probably knew better. Think of all the man hours people put into this site doing research.

Anyway, it is also hopeful, because once we know the root cause of the disease, then we can begin looking for a cure. There must be a way to bind the OspA, and repair our B cells. I wonder if they are produced in the bone marrow like red blood cells.

Hi Loutucky, That's a very interesting story, and it's always insightful to hear personal accounts. The fact that your husband was probably exposed to lyme from you shows that maybe he won't get lyme. Was there ever an occasion that he was bitten by a tick that you remember?

gfields -

You might be right that the OspA might have affected you that way. There was another long discussion about this very topic by a previous member IHL and there were some good input by a few members who are in the science fields. Interestingly, my perspective on this has changed a bit.
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3703608

I need to modify my post above to be a little more specific but here is a quick version: when I suggest people remain cautious of controversial sites like LymeCrime, what I mean is that it is pretty common now days for the whistle-blower information to be sabotaged. For instance, the OspA info can have factual scientific pieces to it but then the disinfo effort will involve modifying a piece of the research to back it up or adding to the argument enough inaccurate information that allows others to easily debunk the whistleblower theory.

It's complicated. These strategies go back decades. I think this is the primary reason that people with scientific backgrounds are not all supportive of the LymeCryme site. And if the OspA is as big an issues as it seems, you can rest assured any information about it will be targeted. And we're caught in the middle.

Hi Loutucky -

Thanks for sharing - VERY interesting about your husband and dogs.

I wish I had better suggestions for those who continue to struggle in getting better. I have been on a rollercoaster ever since I got ill (20+ yrs ago) when I'm pretty sure I contracted Lyme & Co. And I have recovered and relapsed 4-5 times since then. I'm currently on an upswing after finally getting dx and tx 4 yrs ago but it's taken a long time and we've tried a ton of things and have retraced several steps... and I'm not done yet.

The only thing I can suggest is to continue reading and learning and observing what others are doing and never stop trying. Go back to something you did before that didn't work - tweak it, change some variables. And first and foremost, heal your gut and boost your immune function. I usually post a long, detailed list of suggestions for people who are struggling with tx but don't want to derail the thread. You can email me if you'd like to see it.

MAF-249
I totally understand your frustration. I think one of the reasons you don't read about more success stories is that those people simply aren't around anymore. They FINALLY get well and rush back to try to pick up the very fractured pieces of their lives. Lyme & Co destroys so much. I wish more people would revisit and tell their stories and help out others - but they don't. It's the primary reason why the Moderators of this forum struggle often because we are all still treating and there are few "healed" members still hanging around.

But while I'm still trying to wrap up loose ends I have made CONSIDERABLE progress since I started treating. My approach has not been simple or easy but I can share what has worked for me if you like.

Hang in there and keep pushing forward.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 9/27/2017 8:20:40 AM (GMT-6)

Hi gfields -

I am agreeing that the OspA could be a big problem. I have responded well to abx as have many others so I know that the OspA issues are likely not universal. However, I agree that the basic science presented is compelling.

But since neither of us has a background in bio sciences, we have to proceed cautiously with EVERYTHING we read and are told. And since neither of us knows exactly how the vaccine was created, nor exactly how Bb affects our bodies, or why OspA could be an issue for you but not me, or a hundred other inconsistencies in the Lyme world, we are at the mercy of info we find. Those who have all the power know that and know exactly how to take advantage.

The pharmaceutical industry is more powerful than our own government. If they don't want us to know the truth, we won't. Revealing truth lies almost solely with the success of whistleblowers getting the truth to the public, and they know that too. Sabotaging that process is job #1 and it's a process that has been perfected over decades. It really is that simple.

There is a reason that some in the bio sciences are cautious about that site - not all of the info has been challenged, but you need to understand the issues from their perspective. Give that discussion I posted a good read - it speaks to those stated perspectives better than I can. I fixed the link.

I agree that the focus needs to be on "fixing" the issues with the science used to study Lyme, testing, tx and certainly in developing the vaccines. But until there is consensus on that science --- and if there were we wouldn't have the Lyme controversy we have today --- we have to keep a very open mind.

-p

Umm....a lot people have gotten well with abx and herbs or both. They are just not on here (some are).

Many people share their stories. I dont think they are lying.

I personally don't go down conspiracy theory rabbit holes. Very rarely do you find meaningful and helpful answers.

Um..I live in an area that Lyme isn't really talked about much - but I still know several people who have healed...and are still well today.

Treatment ranged from about 6 months to 4 years.

And then there are the successes on this forum.

gfields said...
There's a video on this website that explains what's happening to our B cells from the OspA:
https://www.truthcures.org/videos

Essentially, this entire time, everyone on this site is barking up the wrong tree?!

We all have AIDs essentially. I wonder if we can replace our B cells. I wonder if that's why Ozzy's daughter got better from Lyme via cell replacement therapy.

Should we be taking AIDs cocktails?

Not all but many of the neurologic cases 85% if desseminated have an AIDS mutated B-cell like illness. Not to be mistaken for HIV/AIDS.

ALSO IF ANYONE WANTS TO UNDERSTAND THIS AT A BADIC LEVEL. Google, Bad Lyme Attitude Blog website.