lymerix

dacarte3 said...
Umm....a lot people have gotten well with abx and herbs or both. They are just not on here (some are).

Many people share their stories. I dont think they are lying.

I personally don't go down conspiracy theory rabbit holes. Very rarely do you find meaningful and helpful answers.

Lyme disease itself is the conspiracy. I don't doubt people can get better, I do however believe this is merely remission of an asymptomatic stage. Once you have borrelia you will ALWAYS have it.

gfields said...
Yes, we are in such a tricky predicament having this disease. The powers-that-be clearly want to suppress Lyme disease, and we're not even certain WHY they want to suppress our disease. They must have an important reason, because they are certainly putting a lot of effort into suppressing it.

The longer I have this disease, the more I realize how serious it is. I remember thinking when I first became sick that this is probably lethal. Unfortunately, if I do die from this disease, even my death certificate will not represent the truth. It will say I died from pneumonia, or the flu. It won't say Lyme Disease which is actually what killed me.

After watching the videos on truthcures (and I haven't even finished all of them yet), I am beginning to think that OspA is definitely a key piece to this puzzle. That seems to be the main ingredient in the vaccines, and what made people sick without live spirochetes. There's definitely something going on there. Unfortunately, as you said, without a science background, I have difficulty understanding the details of this problem. I will need to read that thread in-depth and see what some of the more science-minded lymies had to say. Thanks for referring me to that link. I think I read one part of it, but it went on to part 2 and part 3. I hope one day we get to the bottom of this mystery. There's too many people suffering, and we deserve answers and a cure. Not to mention all the poor animals in the forest that are suffering as well.

It could also be that those that got sick already had LD (asymptomatic). I think there are many out there. I am not exactly sure what happens if you get a vaccine for a bacteria you have. That may explain why some did not get sick. Either that or genetics (hla gene).

I'm of the belief that Borreliosis is never "cured". People certainly become asymptomatic, but I don't think the bacteria can be 100% eradicated. Heck, we can barely eradicate it in a petri dish, never mind once it's been disseminated throughout the body.

Do people achieve meaningful relief? Absolutely.
Are those people in the majority? I doubt it. Just look at the number of people who join this forum and then disappear without a trace. It's important to keep expectations realistic.

Girlie said...
MS - many people who join this forum do get better and leave as well.

I'm sure there are. Unfortunately there's no way to know if people who leave are better or not. My gut tells me that if someone got better, they'd be inclined to write a quick post about it, but again, no way to know.

Right, but there's also a list about 10x longer of people who just left, without any hint of getting better.

Haha sorry for the rain there Girlie

Hi all,

I feel a little guilty about not posting more (I'm really busy). Anyway as far as the Lymerix vaccine I knew people who got the vaccine who didn't have lyme and after getting the vaccine they got lyme. From what I remember the vaccine contained lyme bacteria. Who in the world would want to get injected with lyme bacteria? I guess these people didn't know what was in the vaccine.

That said below is a link to one of the reasons why the vaccine got pulled off the market:

whatislyme.com/why-was-the-lyme-vaccine-pulled-from-the-market/

In any case I'm going on 12 years of being healed but I know I will always have lyme bacteria in my body. I believe most everyone has lyme bacteria but they don't have lyme "disease".. I'm active in my detox regime as well as eating healthy and keeping my stress levels low. This keeps my immune system strong.

Just because Jernigan's protocol helped me heal doesn't mean it will work for others. Everyone heals using different methods.

My advice to everyone is if your current treatment plan is not working within 3 months then change to a different one. I tried abx for about 3 months which made me sicker, then I tried some other alternative medicines which didn't help. Finally I found the protocol that did work for me and the rest is history.

Buy the books recommended (Buhner, Jernigan, Rawls) and become your own advocate. Listen to the free video's by famous doctors (Jernigan has lots of free video's from the Hansa Center website).

I personally never trusted doctors and always questioned them (which they didn't like). Trust your own instinct and follow your heart.. It's your body and I'm a strong believer in listening to it. Call me a body whisperer, lol!

Hope this helps,
Denise

Deejavu said...


Anyway as far as the Lymerix vaccine I knew people who got the vaccine who didn't have lyme and after getting the vaccine they got lyme.

In any case I'm going on 12 years of being healed but I know I will always have lyme bacteria in my body.

I believe most everyone has lyme bacteria but they don't have lyme "disease"..

I'm active in my detox regime as well as eating healthy and keeping my stress levels low. This keeps my immune system strong.

Just because Jernigan's protocol helped me heal doesn't mean it will work for others. Everyone heals using different methods.

My advice to everyone is if your current treatment plan is not working within 3 months then change to a different one. I tried abx for about 3 months which made me sicker, then I tried some other alternative medicines which didn't help. Finally I found the protocol that did work for me and the rest is history.

I personally never trusted doctors and always questioned them (which they didn't like). Trust your own instinct and follow your heart.. It's your body and I'm a strong believer in listening to it. Call me a body whisperer, lol!

Denise

I could almost write this post above!!
I feel all her words as almost coming from my mouth.

Lymerix: no chance.

If you don't have lyme and you are sure your immune system is strong, get bitten by ticks and mosquitoes and do not catch lyme, well, why not taking the vaccine and risk?

But if you get bitten and fall ill, no way. I also heard of people in the last 12 years I'm following what's going on in the lyme world, that got ill AFTER the vaccination, DUE to the vaccine.

The new vaccine is just same old story coming back again, as far as I understood: they just changed a bit the color of the label.

I was helped by a similar protocol (with nosodes, dozens of homeopathics, acupuncture, biophotons, microcurrent, dr K's products, Buhner...). 8 years + lyme free. And my daughter too, after being severely affected.

I still do my best not to fall ill again, still looking for ways to get rid of immune deficiencies, so that I don't have to live what I lived.

Ticks bite me now, and I don't fall ill. I will NEVER though take this vaccine, nor any other vaccine.

My daughter got severe allergies her whole life, and I do regret having given her all those shots as a baby.

I'd rather treat myself with nosodes of polio, tetanus etc, than take vaccines.

My trust in the medical community is very low. Even alternative doctors, who helped us, I can't totally trust them because they are BOUND by law: they won't NECESSARILY help you if they have to choose between their licenses and your life, or your child's life.

It happened to us: between my child's life (with severe encephalitis from Tick Borne Encephalitis FSME virus) and their licenses, well they all chose to keep their licenses safe, even if I was swearing never to tell anyone that they treated my child.

they told me: 'I'm sorry, but I can't treat your child with FSME: you gotta take her to a public hospital"

How the heck will I take my child with a severe rapidly developing brain viral infection to a darn public hospital, that even does not acknowledge lyme disease?!

She had BOTH lyme and FSME.

No, in the end, I was left alone with a dying child.
I took care of her at home, day and night, my lyme went skyrocketting, but I saved her.
I paid with my health, but it was worth, as she got no long lasting consequences.

Once you go through that experience, you know that even if your brain is just a shadow of what it was before lyme, even if you barely have energy to stand up and take a shower, you are still BETTER than most of the medical community.

If you have lived what I lived, knowing that FSME like Powassan virus develops extremely fast (not like Borrelia, bart, mycoplasma, ehrlichia etc), and that both handicap a great deal of patients in less than a month after symptoms appear (if they do not kill the patient)... well, you got to act VERY FAST.

No chance to travel and look for help. No time for that!!!
Once you live that, your whole perspective about who you are changes.

The only one thing you become is: trust thyself and act fast!!!

Sorry for the emotional post.
Take your life in your hands, trust your gut, and go on treating.
Many people get well.

And most people who don't give up, who have open minds, some intuition, and minimal funds do improve.
you need an iron will to do that though.
That's my general impression after years following what's going on with lyme around the world.

I'm also with Denise: 2, 3 months, that is what I give to a treatment.
If I see no improvement, I change, sometimes radically.

That's me. I'm not patient to wait 6 months to find one little change in my health....

Post Edited (Jinna) : 9/29/2017 8:39:08 AM (GMT-6)

decarte3 -

Be very cautious tossing around the term "conspiracy theory" in Lyme conversations. birthdaysuit and gfields shared good reasons why.

Many people don't realize that "conspiracy theory" is a term crafted by the CIA after WWII as part of psychological warfare operations (among all sorts of nefarious activities they learned from the N*a*z*i (it's hilarious the hw.com bans that word) and British modes of covert operations to control the public). MOST of this is accessible from documents posted on their website... if this is what they will publicly admit, can you even imagine what they won't? These psych warfare strategies were developed decades ago in order to intimidate anyone questioning "official" positions on events or statements.

Originally, it was explained as necessary measures "in the interest of "state security". Well, the ENTIRE modern security/intelligence/military/etc. system claims EVERYTHING is "state security", which has been immeasurably successful in covering up unbelievable crimes. More than 50% of governmental and official documents are now classified as "Top Secret".

Anyway, in our global world today, all the lines are blurred. "State security" doesn't mean what it used to.

By claiming a view or perspective that counters the official stance is "conspiracy", the system is able to steer public sentiment by attacking the person questioning rather than defend its own position with verifiable facts. Name-calling and shaming successfully humiliates regular folk away from asking questions. No one wants to be bullied but also everyone cares what others think of them.

A great example was JFK assassination, which we now know was full of lies and coverups. As a result, many of these psych operations were perfected and are still being used today. Now, we don't really know what happened w/ JFK but we have pretty good evidence by now that the "official story" is full of holes and coverups. Plenty of other examples in history AND current events.

The most horrifying part of all of this is that the media is 100% complicit. With 96% of the media owned by 5 entities, and of those 5 entities are all linked to 2-3 individuals, we no longer have authentic journalism or a free press.
projectcensored.org/censorship/media-ma/

In modern times the psych warfare comes straight into our homes through paid articles of disinfo, and paid shills posting as "regular folk" in comment sections, on blogs, on websites, etc.
/theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

BTW - I am 100% apolitical. I do not have a party persuasion - I think it's all noise. I'm not a socialist, either. I'm a disheartened American who sees through our one-party system as a marketing tool for a deeper purpose, and I'm desperate for others to stop the engineered divisiveness and wake up. We are losing our country.

Let's look at some of the "facts" -
The Lyme cabal has complete control over the diagnostics and treatment quagmire - that is pretty well-acknowledged and understood by most on this website. And the financial conflicts of interest that likely drives the limited research toward the "narrow" version of Lyme that underpins this system is fairly known.

Most of us have grasped the "two versions" of the Lyme science and the origins of the original "modern" version of Lyme rooted in the recent surge of Lyme in the 70s, which acknowledges two primary symptoms (EM rash, arthritis) and discounts everything else. Most of us know that the science has been manipulated to support this narrow version of Lyme, and that it underpins the diagnostics, treatment and even the vaccine development. (given that most of us "know" this - won't bother with posting citations, links, etc.)

But there is also evidence that Lyme was developed as a bioweapon. This isn't entirely unusual, as other infectious diseases have, too, but they haven't evolved into a modern epidemic like Lyme has. I've seen the evidence, which includes the lists from at least 4 CDC labs with Lyme originally listed, then removed fro the list. And now it's tough to find the lists online at all. What makes Lyme such a perfect weapon is that it's covert, rather than killing masses outright, it does a fantastic job of consuming personal and institutional resources and destroying quality of life. Can it disable an entire society? We'll have to wait and see.

Lyme has been around for millions of years--why all of a sudden, when scientists start messing around with the bioengineering, do we see an epidemic begin--near one of these labs?

And why is the Lyme science so difficult to understand? This is the 21st century...

And why is the system working SO HARD to suppress new cases of Lyme? If you follow the money, it's related to where the investment is. But likely, these are also primary reasons why the military and "higher powers" have co-opted the mortal-level CDC, NIH, IDSA middle management and why we have NO advancement in 40 years.

So the pseudo science serves to keep Lyme cases artificially suppressed so that the vaccine development can continue, so that the experiment can continue, and I'm not sure what other possibilities there are but those are two very logical deductions.

Beyond that, I really have no idea other than it's been a 40-year, mass-scale Tuskogee experiment or coverup of it. It doesn't take much of a stroll through history, through information completely available to the public, to get a very clear picture of the origins of much of today's bioengineering research and pharmaceutical cartel. Eugenics are still being studied. It's hard for people today to think that these kinds of crimes can be sanctioned by a democratic society... but you have your eyes closed.

ONLY by keeping communication open and flowing about Lyme truths, which we will hopefully continue to discover--even ideas we don't agree with--will we have any chance of understanding it and helping ourselves.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 9/29/2017 1:08:42 PM (GMT-6)

Ugh I've gotten in arguments with Kathleen Dickenson over this before. It is frustrating because she does speak at a high level yet some of the stuff she says is total nonsense. There is nothing fungal about OspA. It is a borrelial protein. Period. Call it semantics if you want but bringing the word "fungal" into it does nothing but confuse people and contributes nothing to their understanding of it.

Anyways I believe it was Wormser himself who published a paper on OspA mediated immune suppression. On the contrary OspA is also a molecular mimic to human gangliosides and synovial antigens meaning it may cause autoimmune diseases of the nervous system and joint tissues. I generally don't tend to believe that autoimmune diseases are irreversible or sustained without an infection. But consider what may happen if someone already has nervous system inflammation. Perhaps their antibody response may extend to the range of OspA/Ganglioside and even though the vaccine doesn't last forever, their failure to address preexisting inflammation is able to maintain the autoimmune response. Like a form of epitope spreading. Then if OspA is truly immunosuppressive maybe they don't even need preexisting inflammation. Maybe the reactivation of latent infections is enough to cause this and sustain itself.

Speculative of course. Nobody really knows what's going on. Maybe these people were already infected with subclinical Lyme disease and the vaccine simply broke immune tolerance. Who knows. Point is we can speculate all day but this can't be neatly wrapped up into a debate of PLDS vs Chronic Lyme

Good post Psilociraptor -

I have been baffled by the "fungal" component of the OspA argument and your statements sound far more reasonable. Perhaps this is a good example of taking factual information that a whstleblower (there are others besides Kathleen, and it makes me wonder why she "speaks at such a high level"--who is allowing her to do that? or is she only allowed to because she's easy to discredit?) is trying to share that gets co-opted by a faction with ulterior motives. So the factual information gets combined with ridiculous information, which makes it VERY easy to discredit all of it including the "whistleblower" and anyone agreeing with it. Subsequently the opposition regains control of the narrative in order to promote the "official version". There are countless examples of this in our history, all currently around us.

Denise/Jinna -
I appreciate your thoughts and sharing of your experiences - each of us has relevant information to share since understanding what has been done and worked for others helps most of us figure out what might work for us.

But each time you make a statement about "antibiotics being harmful" it demands a clarifying response. It's getting kind of old. We mods are pretty busy trying to maintain the site 24/7 AND continue our treatment, healing and life's other demands. It would be more helpful if you simply crafted your statements a little better, toned down the fear-mongering. Many people read these threads and abx are the "most available" protocol to them. You can suggest a comprehensive approach to abx use and can also tell your experiences with abx-- without including that false angle of it.

I also believe that most people have the Bb in their bodies. It's also very likely true that Bb infection that might trigger symptoms still doesn't guarantee that it will manifest itself into "Lyme disease" - however you're using that term. But with the risks involved, it's absurd to expect anyone to not treat prophylactically after an infection develops into symptoms. Generally, people aren't getting prophylactic abx without sx.

Most people on this forum who have used abx correctly have not been "harmed" --nuisances aside. Antibiotics have helped MOST people, or this epidemic would also involve most of the people treated prophylactically after initial infection. Not all the studies and their conclusions or the interpretation of the conclusions or the publicity of it all --are true, factual. However, it's probably true that most people who are treated immediately after infection do just fine on abx. The reality of the epidemic is that most people aren't able to get to that point because the system is rigged to acknowledge only the narrow version of Lyme.

Since abx are also used for a multitude of other infections successfully, without "harming" patients, it's unwise to suggest they "harm most people". Are they a panacea? Of course not but neither is any herbal protocol you want to dig up. Each time you mention this, I'll counter with the fact that bart herbs landed me in the ER. The vanco abx I used to treat instead helped me heal tremendously.

It's too late to suggest everyone stay away from abx - they are in most of the animal food products eaten in this country. So that ship has sailed. People come to this forum scared, sick, desperate for information and help. Trying to steer them away from a viable option to help minimize the real harm from untreated Lyme is not helping.

Please be more mindful of your posts. I hate asking this again. You want to start an "antibiotics harm" debate? Start a new thread and knock yourselves out. Don't muddy up a different discussion with this unuseful rhetoric.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 9/30/2017 1:24:29 PM (GMT-6)

Pirouette, I'm not going to change the content of this thread, but the affirmation that antibiotics are NOT harmful is not also backed by many scientific papers.

The fact that antibiotics do harm people that even BELIEVED in them cannot be denied.

Fluoroquinolone.

If you consider that perfectly safe, give me papers suggesting that.
http://alternativa-za-vas.com/en/index.php/clanak/article/6-deadly-antibiotics

A search in lyme forums will show that lyme sufferers now are claiming permanent damage due to fluoroquinolones.

We particularly feel that antibiotics damaged our guts, very long term, and that antibiotics contributed zero percent to make our lyme disease go dormant.

ZERO percent.

I heard most of the lyme community saying antibiotics are the best type of treatment, that is why we tried to use it FIRST HAND for acute lyme.

due to people like you.

But in our PARTICULAR cases (both my daughter and myself), they did more harm than good.

Same as vaccines.

Some people swear the flu vaccine help them, but some others say that these vaccines cause the flu.

If there were one truth, we would not need forums.

So please, don't come with your all-above-truth statements that there is only one truth and that anybody else with a different opinion should keep their mouths shut.

Do you have the truth and the only truth?

Say it, but don't try to suppress other people's EXPERIENCE.

If you truly got rid of chronic lyme, several multiple bites and acute reinfections that go on and on with multiple dose of antibiotics and still remain free of lyme with antibiotics for years, healthy and TREATMENT FREE now, well, share your protocol here!

We are TRULY happy to know about happy ending stories.

I got rid of lyme, of relapses, of reinfections without ONE single pill of antibiotics.
And so did my daughter.

All of my lyme doctors patients barely touch antibiotics. The guy is booked, you got to pass through an interview to get accepted.

I avoid antibiotics as much as I avoid vaccines. That's me.

I'm not saying it's the only way out.

I'm saying that there are other ways to get rid of chronic infections and that is not always passing through chemicals.

It's my truth, my experience, backed up by the German type of holistic and biologic medicine.
that was the ONLY treatment I found here, because no one was willing anyway to prescribe me drugs.

So if I followed you, and waited to get treated by drugs, that would have been DANGEROUS, because in my particular situation, I could not get more drugs.

I would be wary of your type of advice.

If you guys believe that using ACUTE remedies (antibiotics) for CHRONIC diseases will also work if you mix several types of acute remedies, is one way of seeing the picture.

Jernigan does not see that. Nor dr. K. Nor dr. R from Par Clinic, nor dr W who uses biophotons. Nor Rawls.
We're in a free space of discussion, right?

If it were not free even here to have such discussions, we wouldn't be allowed to discuss vaccines either: they are THE right tool for most of the conventional medical community, so why discuss?

I won't be quiet because I do think antibiotics can harm. Specially children.
If fluoroquinolones do no harm, well, what do you call harm then?

Deejavu it seems a little odd that the products that you state to have cured you all come from the same company. People here are aware of that just as they are aware of antibotics issues. I looked back at the posts from when you had just joined this forum and there are no posts about you ever being sick. The first posts you make are about being cured by the same products that you always post about.

Also, other people have used those products and have not had a good outcome, not a bad outcome, but they are not healed. Can you find any posts where someone has been healed by using the products that you used?

Those products may not cause the issues that antibiotics do but they still have the same success rate which is about 0%. Prove me wrong if I am wrong.