LLMD Wants me to Stop Treatmnet for a Month

My LLMD just called me to tell me my liver enzymes were "slightly elevated" and is putting me on 250MG of Milk Thistle 2x daily.

She said to stop taking my zithromax and malorone until I get back from my business trip in Italy which wont be until the second week of November, but that I can continue my Diflucan weekly and herbs. Isn't Diflucan really hard on the liver though??

I am worried about stopping treatment for this long.. What does everyone else think?

It's possible she doesn't want anything to happen while you're traveling. But "slightly elevated" is a suggestion to tweak things, not a red flag. You don't want them to get "highly elevated". Although for some people, that's also easy to solve.

I'm not your LLMD, but you do have other options:

I would continue the abx and wait to see if the milk thistle addressed the enzymes effectively - take it for a couple weeks and retest.

If not, add in burdock root. After taking MTS successfully for a year on abx AND antiviral Rx I added in a different antifungal Rx and enzymes went up "high enzymes". So I continued with all the meds and kept taking MTS and added Burdock root to the MTS and the combination effectively reduced the enzymes.

If BOTH don't work, you can also try a liver cleanse - that's what many people do who have sensitivities to the MTS or burdock root.

Then, if you're still dealing with the high enzymes, you should stop taking the abx until you figure out next steps.

(have an awesome time in Italy)

-p

Pirouette said...
It's possible she doesn't want anything to happen while you're traveling. But "slightly elevated" is a suggestion to tweak things, not a red flag. You don't want them to get "highly elevated". Although for some people, that's also easy to solve.

I'm not your LLMD, but you do have other options:

I would continue the abx and wait to see if the milk thistle addressed the enzymes effectively - take it for a couple weeks and retest.

If not, add in burdock root. After taking MTS successfully for a year on abx AND antiviral Rx I added in a different antifungal Rx and enzymes went up "high enzymes". So I continued with all the meds and kept taking MTS and added Burdock root to the MTS and the combination effectively reduced the enzymes.

If BOTH don't work, you can also try a liver cleanse - that's what many people do who have sensitivities to the MTS or burdock root.

Then, if you're still dealing with the high enzymes, you should stop taking the abx until you figure out next steps.

(have an awesome time in Italy)

-p

My gut instinct agrees with you and others. I feel that it is taking 10 steps backwards if I stop antibiotics for a month.

Should I push back with my LLMD and ask if I can maybe just take every other day until next month?

I hate pushing back on doctors..

Slightly raised isn't anything to worry about.

Sometimes it's the infections causing that...or the die-off from infections. Not always the abx.

When mine started to climb when I was on lyme only treatment (about 4 or 5 months in) - my regular Dr. (no knowledge of Lyme) and my LLND said we'd watch it.
It wasn't until another 3 months later...when they climbed higher that my LLND had me take a break to let them normalize.

Interesting - after that, I started treating bart with Rifampin...and my Liver enzymes continued to drop and stay in range for the next two years.
I'm wondering if it was untreated bart actually affecting the liver.

So, it could also be the infection, and/or the die-off of infection perhaps causing the enzymes to climb.

100Daisies - I agree in some way, but I also was getting ready to hit babs and bart and I have been taking CSA and haven't been seeing improvement and really wanted to hit them with antibiotics.

Pirouette - Thank you for the response. You mentioned a lot of great things!! Things have been up and down for me since starting treatment in March, but at my appointment last week we decided to start hitting Babesia and then Bart since we haven't hit those yet and I have many of the symptoms of those two still very much prevelent. So it is really frustrating for me to just stop treatment. I was looking forward to hitting babs with Mepron and Zithromax, and hoping to turn a corner before my trip, but now to just pause treatment just doesn't feel right.

One key that I forgot to mention is that I don't leave until November 4th and return on the 12th.

I will let my LLMD know what I am feeling. Ask her to maybe just take everything every other day and see how my enzymes are in a week?

Girlie - Very interesting that your liver enzymes went down while hitting bart! Especially since I highly suspect bart in me, but haven't treated.

Kat1000 said...
I would google to see what Buhner, Rawls, Horowitz, etc have to say. Are you pulsing or taking daily? I think you could take a week or two off and then go every other day without suffering a setback. There's so many different protocols, you really have to go with what feels right to you.

I just stopped antibiox on my own because my stomach was hurting. I'm giving it a 2 week break and then getting back on. In the meantime, I ordered Buhner's book and plan on ramping up herbals which is where I want to be 100% eventually.

hi Kat! good advice about the herbs

I was wondering if your first round of antibiotics cured you? can you tell me your reasoning for starting them back up again?

MAF249



Please do not question people who choose antibiotics for treatment - as if they are doing something wrong.

Many people do heal on antibiotic therapy....others heal using herbals....etc. We support different modalities here.

Nic - Elevated liver enzymes can be from the malarone. Babesia inflames the liver. Killing it off can raise liver enzymes, but it is because of the bugs, not the medication.

Girlie said...
MAF249



Please do not question people who choose antibiotics for treatment - as if they are doing something wrong.

Many people do heal on antibiotic therapy....others heal using herbals....etc. We support different modalities here.

I am certainly not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong. I wan to know what the results were from the previous antibiotic treatment that made it worth repeating.

I am just looking for someone who treated with antibiotics and when they were done they could say "I significantly improved and am nearly healed". I'd like to hear about any protocol that has been finished with a significant positive result so that I can mention it to my LLMD.

I also didn't connect with the diflucan - DEFINITELY need to be on MTS when on any systemic antifungal Rx that is processed through the liver (less important w/ Nystatin, that generally stays in the gut).

MAF249 said...
Are you cured from the protocol that you have found? If not, what advantages and benefits did you obtain with your protocol now compared to past ones?

I feel strongly that we are not cured from Lyme, but seek to be healed and to get our immune system to dominate the infection, and move it into dormancy.

So, how much have I healed?

I would say I'm at 70%, overall. My goal is 90% recovery. I went undiagnosed for 16+ years so I've adjusted my reality for 20 yrs of infections and aging. This December will be my 4th anniversary of treating Lyme & Co:

- I started in severe adrenal exhaustion, which is now at about 90%
- I started with a very distressed an malfunctioning GI, which is now at about 85%
- I started with high titers/reactivation of 4-5 different viruses, which are now at about 90% under control
- I started with a severe yeast/fungal overgrowth, which is also about 90% under control

And I spent the first 4-5 months of my treatment getting those conditions under control before starting antimicrobial herbs for Lyme, Babs and Bart. We stopped testing after those 3 because I couldn't afford more and couldn't tolerate any more to treat.

- For about 6 months of trying various herbs for Lyme, none of which triggered herxes or improved sx, I rapidly started losing the ability to walk due to hip, knee joint pain and inflammation as well as muscle weakness, I lost the grip in my hands and other sx. So we started IV Rocephin and after serious herxing the first month I improved slowly but steadily.

- After I made some progress with Lyme, I started concentrating on bart with various herbs, including Byron White A-bart. It took almost a year but I finally connected severe GI attacks (one that landed me in ER on Christmas Eve) to the A-bart. I replaced bart herbs w/ IV Vanco and the attacks stopped and many of my bart sx improved. But not until a few months in when I got to optimal dose and then got through a horrendous 3 wks of herxing.

- Then I focused on biofilms at the end of 2016. I overdosed and developed bronchitis and sinusitis and many neuro sx flared horribly. Took me about 3 months of stopping and restarting antibiofilms but I finally made progress without crashing. I think biofilms are still a concern for me but I had to cease the antibiofilms because it was causing problems with my weekly blood draws required for the vanco. So I'll call that 60% resolved.

- I finally was able to successfully replace Rocephin with "maintenance" dose herbs this past May. I think my Lyme sx are about 85% resolved.

- I would be off the vanco except for a surge of weird bone pain over the summer and now, a couple of unrelated(?) surgical procedures I need to have. Then I'll go off the vanco (it's covering both bart and Lyme and other "unknowns" I presume I have since it's a broad-spectrum abx). I've already transitioned to herbs for bart. I will also stay on the bart and Lyme herbs for at least another year. I think my bart sx are about 85% resolved.

- Throughout this roller coaster, I have tried so many herbs I've lost count. I've cycled through various detoxing protocols and have done a lot of testing to assess and deal with other body systems that have been impacted by the infections (thyroid, adrenals, neurotransmitters, etc...) Most of this has been trial-and-error and some of it I've been lucky to land on what worked the first go-round.

- Hopefully, babs is my remaining 20%. I have started various herbs for babs at various points over the past few years but haven't made a lot of progress for various reasons.

- I think my final frontier is rebalancing neurotransmitters. I have a gigantic fear that this is due to permanent damage or I've somehow exacerbated a genetic problem... I have a lot more questions than answers but I generally still manage quite a few neuro-psych issues, which could be Lyme, babs or bart or something else.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 10/9/2017 10:27:35 PM (GMT-6)

NicHostetler said...
100Daisies - I agree in some way, but I also was getting ready to hit babs and bart and I have been taking CSA and haven't been seeing improvement and really wanted to hit them with antibiotics.

...

I am using CSA and MYCO for Bart. I put my friend with Babs on CSA and Auntie Vi. You should find this in line with Buhner. I believe if you are hitting both it might be a good idea to add Both MYCO and Auntie Vi to CSA.

I read where Klinghardt suggests pushing through slightly elevated enzymes.

However, I never had the luxury of tests and took breaks as my body told me to take breaks. This would be signaled in the way of kidney fatigue, liver fatigue etc.

Lipo Glutathione was excellent for Liver Fatigue.

I've been on Diflucan for about 18 months now. Early on I had to break from this also. I am going back to a Keto diet to flush fat out of the liver and cleanse the rest of the body that might be storing excess drug toxins.

Now if I had a fully clay colored stool at any time, I would have stopped the Diflucan as this would have been a clear signal to me to do so. This happened to my friend and his doc said he never heard such a thing! check your PDR doc! W T F?!

Now I never did Malarone so I don't know what to expect. I did Zithro until my face peeled dry and I said no mas (for now). I had no such trouble with its cousin, Biaxin.

For what its worth. Best wishes whatever you decide.

Girlie said...
ChickenArise - 18 months of Diflucan? How many days per week?

I attempted stopping in January (after beginning it in May of last year). That was premature and I went back on in February. If I dont count the month off that is 16 months, if I do its 17 if I am counting correctly.

Much of my time on it has been about 400mg per day. There have been days where I used 800mg but I started slower and at lower, so 400mg is a fair average.

I am down to 400mg every 72 hours from daily. I checked my notes and it looks like in July I went to q72.

I am glad you asked and I checked because I think it is time that I attempt to taper it to weekly and if I have no issues then biweekly, followed by monthly.

I am reluctant to do an abrupt stop as I think it wont work again if there is a next time.

18 months is the longest I have heard anyone stay on it that was not forced to stay on it for life.

Diet changes are needed with this drug as I dont believe this drug can do it all on its own.

I am using Milk Thistle with it but I think its also important to be on a good Glutathione also with this med.

Edit: I am super glad you said something as it appears there is a moderate reaction potential with Magnesium that I failed to check until now. It is unusual for me to be so careless.

My anxiety has been high in the last few days which is another tip that its time to taper.

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/calcium-carbonate-magnesium-hydroxide-simethicone-with-diflucan-471-0-1096-630.html

I have to be very careful as I am on much Mg. I have no plan to stop Mg. so I really need to taper Fluconazole again right away. Apparently sometimes just your questions lead to insights. It caused me to reflect, pause, and consider things. Thanks Girlie!!!!