Artimissan Annua ?

Just wondering how much Art is toxic? I am taking maybe two full doppers full 2x a day for the past three days. I am well under 1000 mg. 176 mg per dopper full of tinacture. just wondering should I be concerned with studies saying it is nuero toxic and cause heart problems. Is that just higher doses?


I am also taking 1 tsp of the following powders.
cats claw
olive leaf
pau d arco
x 2 a day.

1/4
of clove
blck wallnut hull powders.

These are taking in between the art.

Thanks

Well here is what I know.

Don't take it with grapefruit juice.

It may also interact with calcium channel blockers.

You should google side effects and if you feel you have the slightest one, stop the herb.

herb pharm sells a tinacture. It is Art annua

PeteZa said...
Did your LLMD tell you to take this herb?

Buhner says on page 386. Healing Lyme, 2nd Ed, that very high doses (5000 mg day of artemissinim for three days) have caused liver inflammation, which corrects upon stopping the supplement.

I have not taken this herb. Any herb that mentions the heart I stay away from because lyme gave me such heart symptoms.

You should read what Buhner says about this herb and how to take it.

That is referring to artemisinin not Artemisia Annua.

Woodduck is taking Artemisia Annua.

I don't know anyone who has taken 5000 mg per day of Artemisinin. Yikes!

Buhner now recommends Artemisinin instead of Artemisia Annua.(whole herb)

Psilociraptor said...
Girlie, any chance you remember the details of what you read about it? That seems very uncharacteristic of Buhner and online it says he recommends neither which is sort of what I remember from reading his books

Problem is - he has changed his mind a few times...the last I heard was when cd3764 said in his new Babesia book he now recommends Artemisinin.

Do you, by chance have his new Babs book to check? I don't - I just have the bartonella one.

I'll see if I can find the thread by doing a search.

Maybe CD3764 just meant that he recommends it, not recommends it over artemesia annua. In the Babesia protocol he says that artemesia annua or its constituents can be used and then in parentheses says the whole herb is very effective. In his Lyme book he recommends against artemisinin for extended periods of time due to possible neurotoxicity but then says the whole herb might not be as dangerous (never actually confirmed to my knowledge). In vitro studies, at the least, have shown artemesia annua to be more effective in treating artemisinin resistant malaria and preventing resistance in the first place. There are few examples (none off the top of my head) where isolated constituents are preferred to synergistic mixtures. Only in the wives tales of modern day pharmacology is it said that refined is better.

Right but the WHO is an international organization with political concerns. They can not willy nilly recommend herbs for serious diseases unless they have been rigorously tested. That doesn't necessarily mean that artemisinin is preferable to artemisia. Just that the currently available evidence doesn't support using whole herb for potentially deadly diseases when more rigorous study has been done on its consituents. Preclinical evidence, on the other hand, offers insight into why compound synergy is important and using isolated products might be a huge mistake which is consistent with Buhners usual stance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311864/

As for Buhner, I have read all his books on Lyme, coinfections, and antibacterial/viral plants and don't recall him once recommending artemisinin over artemisia. Or any constituent over whole herb for that matter. I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe I just don't remember. But it is out of character for him, I don't see those recommendations online, I can't find it in his book, and there is no reason I can conceive of him having that opinion in the first place. Hopefully CD will shed some light

Psilociraptor said...
Right but the WHO is an international organization with political concerns. They can not willy nilly recommend herbs for serious diseases unless they have been rigorously tested. That doesn't necessarily mean that artemisinin is preferable to artemisia. Just that the currently available evidence doesn't support using whole herb for potentially deadly diseases when more rigorous study has been done on its consituents. Preclinical evidence, on the other hand, offers insight into why compound synergy is important and using isolated products might be a huge mistake which is consistent with Buhners usual stance https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311864/

As for Buhner, I have read all his books on Lyme, coinfections, and antibacterial/viral plants and don't recall him once recommending artemisinin over artemisia. Or any constituent over whole herb for that matter. I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe I just don't remember. But it is out of character for him, I don't see those recommendations online, I can't find it in his book, and there is no reason I can conceive of him having that opinion in the first place. Hopefully CD will shed some light

Im not sure what Buhner's latest stance is on Babesia and Artemisinin or Artemisia.
LLMD's (and some LLND's) often have Artemisinin or Artesunate as their preferred form.

He does mention Artemisinin for Malaria prevention:



buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/malaria-and-artemisinin/

This is from 2008 - so 'old news'

buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/shorter-course-of-artemisinin/

This is from 2006 - and a note is added that he "now" prefers Crytolepis to Artemisia and Artemisinin.

buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/babesia-unconfirmed/

proactfit said...
I have Buhner latest book and Artemisinin is on his protocol and even on his recommendation for a reduced protocol. He suggests Artemisinin (or artesunate or artemisone), 100-200 mg. 3x daily. I am so confused by this herb!! My naturopath told me to take it 30 days continuous as did my LLMD but I've read so much about pulsing so that your body doesn't build resistance. Buhner says in his book to follow the regimen for 30-60 days. I thought I also read by Buhner that the effectiveness goes down to 24% after 7 days but that pulsing won't help. I can't find where I read that though. I had decided to do 3 days on and seven to 11 days off to be safe so I didn't take any yesterday or today but I think I just changed my mind to do 30 days...

Buhner is confusing many of us re: whole herb vs Artemisinin.
Maybe he's the one who is confused?

LLMD MR says 3 on and 11 off.

I think it's different than resistance - what happens is the small intestine can produce an enzyme that renders it useless. (According to aforementioned LLMD.

Many (most?) LLMD's prescribe it in a pulsed manner.

Girlie said...
Maybe he's the one who is confused?

I've caught some of his errors before

I do finally see where he listed artemisinin in the protocol. However, a couple pages before he says "the whole herb can be used very effectively if you wish". In his herbal antibiotics he recommends using fresh plant. Maybe this is why he has listed artemisinin in the protocol and not artemisia. Because he thinks people are unlikely to have access to fresh plant? I don't know. Not very consistent lol

I was just going to post about this herb! This is one of the main herbs in the Zhang protocol. I started off doing Zhang - which was working mighty nicely - for about 2 months until I started getting horrible digestive problems. He was away in China and I didn’t trust what his assistant was recommending so I slowly started Buhner. I went to see Dr. Zhang last week to follow up and he recommended that I take his artemisia annua and coptis, very slowly, with my current protocol. He said it was safe with what I’m taking and seemed sure and all. Thing is, Buhner no longer recommends it and online I find conflicting info.
Looking back, perhaps that is what gave me all the digestive issues. So I’m really not sure if I should listen to Zhang or Buhner. Thoughts anyone?
(OP,sorry if I’m hijacking your thread!)

Anyone have any experiences with the tincture and Lyme? Was watching a lecture by Zhang on his persister drug studies and artemisinin was on the list of effective drugs. I've got a bottle of sweet annie but didn't notice much. But I had changed around a lot in my protocol. Wondering if it's worth another shot. Wish I had an answer to OPs question though. I've been hesitant to take it long term

Girlie, it is definitely the whole plant - artemisia annual L. entire plant, says it right on the bottle. He combines it with red-rooted sage root and astragalus.