Worse after months of Lyme Treatment

BlakeAlexander said...
Is it possible that by treating Lyme and not paying attention to Co-infections that there can be a worsening of symptoms from a co-infection? And If so, should I focus solely on that co-infection for the time being or still be treating the Lyme as well?

I remember reading somewhere that Buhner says that when treating one infection, another can cause a worsening of symptoms like they are "competing" for resources in the body??? Something along those lines... I wasn't sure if that was restricted to coinfections or if that included Lyme as well.

I think it's possible. Seems to be what happened to me twice now - once after 7 days of minocycline and most recently after 7 days of Augmentin. Both times, my bartonella symptoms got much worse. After minocycline, my joint and muscle stiffness, foot pain, and loss of stamina left me barely able to walk for 2 months.

After the minocycline incident, I decided antibiotics were not for me and also decided the doctor was not for me. I did my research and chose to treat myself with herbs using Buhner's protocol. I started out with japanese knotweed, cat's claw, danshen/skullcap combo, and red root. Then I added Gou-teng and lion's mane. Then I started the whole bartonella protocol (supportive herbs first, followed by IHA, followed by Sida Acuta). Then I added bidens pilosa, phellodendron (a berberine), and kudzu root.

Basically, I'm doing the full bartonella protocol minus arginine along with additional herbs for Lyme, babesia, and chlamydia pneumonia.

In October, I consulted with a real Lyme doctor. At that time, I was just starting out on the bartonella protocol. She advised me to add more herbs for Lyme and babesia and to treat them all at the same time. She described it as playing whack-a-mole. You beat down one infection and another one pops up. You just gotta keep going until they're all gone.

BlakeAlexander said...
I treated for Lyme with Doxy/Rifampin from March to October/November and just continued to get worse so my LLMD took me off antibiotics. My symptoms did not improve when I stopped antibiotics so I am doubting this was a detox/herx issue. Maybe it still could have been a detox issue...?

We ran an IGENEX Test and I came up negative across the board for Lyme (Western Blot and PCR) but positive with very high babesia duncani antibody levels (Igm 640).

Is it possible that by treating Lyme and not paying attention to Co-infections that there can be a worsening of symptoms from a co-infection? And If so, should I focus solely on that co-infection for the time being or still be treating the Lyme as well?

I remember reading somewhere that Buhner says that when treating one infection, another can cause a worsening of symptoms like they are "competing" for resources in the body??? Something along those lines... I wasn't sure if that was restricted to coinfections or if that included Lyme as well.

Before I finished reading your post I was thinking about Babesia. Dr J treats Babesia early on - he sees it as significant player and because you tested positive for Babesia - it’s an easy answer - you should treat it.
When you treat Babesia with Pharma - you will also be treating Lyme.

For instance if you take Mepron and Azithromycin for Babesia, it will also hit Lyme.

I have taken Mepron with two abx - pulsing them all.

BlakeAlexander said...
Girlie,

Yeah I see that most on here treat Babesia with Mepron and Azithromycin. My LLMD wants to use malarone and artemisinin, none of which target lyme specifically. So what I am wondering now is how much I should worry about Lyme still being there? I guess that's a million dollar question most of us want answered...

Well - I would discuss this with your Dr. Most LLMD’s will prescribe an antibiotic with Mepron or Malarone - I wouldn’t want to take it without one.

It may be necessary for Babesia (not just Lyme)

Both Dr J and Dr H always prescribe at least one antibiotic with it.
They’ve been treating patients for many years

Girlie,

I initially thought the same thing and was a little worried that my doctor wanted to use malarone without a macrolide. But apparently malarone can be used without another ABX. On page 153 of Dr. H's most recent book he states, "Malarone can be used alone as a single agent, but Mepron should always be used with a macrolide and/or other intracellular medication to prevent drug resistance." I am assuming this is because of the Proguanil in the malarone. Regardless, good looking out. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for any need to add azithromycin or biaxin down the line.

BlakeAlexander said...
Girlie,

I initially thought the same thing and was a little worried that my doctor wanted to use malarone without a macrolide. But apparently malarone can be used without another ABX. On page 153 of Dr. H's most recent book he states, "Malarone can be used alone as a single agent, but Mepron should always be used with a macrolide and/or other intracellular medication to prevent drug resistance." I am assuming this is because of the Proguanil in the malarone. Regardless, good looking out. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for any need to add azithromycin or biaxin down the line.

Well, we're not just talking about resistance, though. We're also talking about treating lyme with the Babesia...no?

I guess Malarone CAN be used alone because of the Proguail - but I've seen charts of Dr. H's protocols...and the ones I've seen - they are multi-abx approach.

Hi,
i'm new to the forum and just wondering why I don't see everyone taking tinidazole (or at least metronidazole) on their Lyme protocols. I thought after Eva Sapi's findings that would be standard with any Lyme treatment. Have I missed something?
Thanks

Tashin said...
Hi,
i'm new to the forum and just wondering why I don't see everyone taking tinidazole (or at least metronidazole) on their Lyme protocols. I thought after Eva Sapi's findings that would be standard with any Lyme treatment. Have I missed something?
Thanks

Dr. J (Washington) has patients taking metronidazole a few days a month only...used as a cyst buster.

There's lots of 'findings' that don't always produce in results.

Eva Sapi also did work on cbd oil and spirochetes, biofilms and in-vitro showed good results, too.
But, that doesn't necessarily translate into success with people.
There are some testimonies from people who have gotten their lives back with the cbd oil. But overall, it hasn't been a game changer. (wasn't for me anyway)

Thanks.
i just came across Dr Zhang, saying that in his research Tinidazole had no effect on persisters, so it's difficult when the 2 main researchers have completely conflicting results!
Re Artemisia. Zhang says artemisinin works for persisters. I would be careful about using only the extracted artemsisin as it is easy to develop resistance to (malaria is already resistant) whereas in the whole plant no resistance has been shown. Treatment would likely take longer though. It is really strong, and seems to be generally recommended as a pulse dose. The mediherb/SP brand has the best i think. They are scrupulous about quality, checking levels of all bioactives, and contaminants.

I took artemesia annua herb and it definitely helped.. Artemesinin or artemsia annua might be worth a try. I don't know what it did, but it made me feel a lot better in general.