Attempting fasting to help w/lyme- here we go!

atxlyme said...

The Dude Abides said...
Between the two, I think the Kitchen Accomplice Bone Broth Concentrate looks better. In addition to the 470 mg of sodium per serving, it also has 340 mg of potassium. I can't think of any reason to be concerned about the yeast extract.

How about the malodextrin in it?

I read that autophagy can be stopped at over 50 calories consumed, do I need to make sure to space them out?

p.s. I forgot your question about maltodextrin. This is a personal call, like everything else. I don't worry about a little maltodextrin in any processed foods I might eat. I come from a background of restrictive diets and obsessing about "perfect" or "clean" eating - which doesn't exist. Now, I try not to sweat the small stuff. I wouldn't eat a bag of maltodextrin, of course, but neither would anyone else.

Some people worry that maltodextrin will spike their blood sugar and possibly harm their gut bacteria. If a person has blood sugar and/or gastrointestinal issues, perhaps avoidance is warranted. But, for everyone else, I think maltodextrin is likely way down on the list of things about which to be concerned.

Although it was several years ago, I completed a seven-day water/broth fast. I don't think the addition of broths -- and, certainly not electrolytes -- should be considered "cheating."

Do you feel that the broths/electrolytes made any difference, whether positive or negative?

That's great news. I'm glad you're feeling better. The fact you were able to work for an hour is impressive.

Yes, the lack of hunger, after a couple of days, is pretty amazing. Most westernized civilizations have such an abundance of food (and, things we call "food" - cookies, cakes, ice cream, etc.) and have become habituated to constantly grazing.

We often eat after the slightest sign of hunger. Or, what we think is hunger. More often, though, we eat/snack out of boredom, taste (versus appetite), emotional reasons, or nonsense like "eat six small meals per day, so you keep your metabolism high" or "if you skip a meal, your body will go into starvation mode."

Personally, I think a few of the best things we could do, regarding this topic are:

1. When we think we're hungry, drink a glass of water and re-evaluate in 30 minutes
2. Occasionally, skip a meal (or, two or three)
3. Become more aware of our body's cues and stop intellectually interfering with its processes

Anyway, thanks for your kind words. I'm delighted if anything we discussed was helpful.

Be well, friend.

The Dude

Yeast extract is one of the many synonyms of monosodium glutamate (MSG). I try to avoid it in my diet when possible, and have some Taurine powder (MSG antidote) on hand.

I don't know about you but MSG can make my heart race and agitate my mood.

I admire your ability to fast at length. When do you plan to break it?

edit: fixed funny spelling, gluta(mage?). Also MSG gives me full-on headaches like nothing else.

Post Edited (borrelioburgdorferii) : 4/22/2018 7:29:56 PM (GMT-6)

MooseSafari said...
Hi, atx, are you still fasting?

yes, 84 hours in

MooseSafari said...
this was very exciting to follow

awesome, glad to hear!

Update:

84 hours without food

Still a bit tired/weak, but nothing extreme.

While the hunger hasn't been terrible at any point during it, I have found myself looking at a lot of food pictures online this morning haha.

I heard many people get energy bursts on the 4th day, but I haven't gotten one.

I've been taking some electrolytes/salts, but that's it since I had a few cups of broth a day or so ago.

If I got the energy boost some others get, I'd think about extending the fast past the 4 day goal. It's honestly all mental really - but with my current energy level it'd be hard to get a lot of work done, so won't extend past then, plus I think since it's the first time I've ever attempted I don't necessarily need to push it to extremes. I'm curious if I notice any effects after I stop, since fasting is supposed to have a lot of benefits.

I think next time I may try just a dry fast. Fwiw I felt very high energy when I was dry fasting, however I only dry fasted for 31 hours so I'm not sure that energy would have sustained. Won't know until I try it next time. But similar to not being super hungry since I stopped eating food, I wasn't thirsty when I was dry fasting.

I just started using a Berkey water filter, and although they say it doesn't take the minerals out, I'm wondering if it might as I drank a lot of water on day 2 to hydrate up, and felt not great/dizzy after.

I'm planning to break the fast with a banana, as it's so soft I figured it'd be a decent choice. I'll then have an apple a while later, and likely go pick up a juice as well. If all goes well after eating those, I'll go back to eating stuff I'd normally eat, but just eat much lighter starting out.

atxlyme said...

Curious, when you've done fasts, did you hit the high energy/huge mental clarity at some point during it? If so what day? I'm on day 4 and feel too tired/weak to have a big energy burst. Nothing extreme, but I've just read others often hit a boost around this time.

I think the best I can say is that my fasting-induced hunger and irritability lifted around Day 3. My mental clarity wasn't a problem, before the fast, so I personally didn't experience anything like Bradley Cooper in the 2011 film LIMITLESS.

My seven-day water/broth fast was about 10 years ago. So, I don't recall all the details. I definitely don't recall any spikes in energy level. And, I do recall wanting the fast to end, because I was still doing many of the obligatory things most of us have to do (working full-time, grocery shopping, etc.) and I was tired.

Generally, I was pretty healthy, going into the fast. There's no way I would attempt it now. Before getting sick, back in 2013, I would often fast anywhere from 12-18 hours daily. These days, I just try to stop eating a few hours before bed. Then, the next morning, I delay my first meal until I feel the need to eat.

If/when I get back to "normal," I'll probably incorporate various fasting strategies - but, in more random fashion. Maybe something like, every week or two, pick a random day to skip all meals. Then, perhaps once a quarter, pick a weekend to skip all meals, starting with skipping dinner on Friday. I don't have a plan, yet, as I'm not at that point. But, I can imagine some physical and mental benefits to random fasting.

I doubt I'll do another week-long fast, unless it's medically-supervised in a clinic. But, even skipping one meal can be considered fasting, so it doesn't have to be an extreme approach. Animal models show that calorie restriction prolongs life. But, would I consistently restrict my calorie intake by 30% to live 30% longer? Definitely not.

I'm about 90 hours into the fast now.

Tired/weak. I never got any sort of energy burst/mental clarity others talk about. I'm just pretty wiped at the moment. Wanted to get some work done but just going to wait until the fast is over to do it.

Hopefully the benefits of the fast prove more valuable than a few days on the couch! haha

But seriously not sure how others maintain normal day to day life on a fast, unless I did something wrong or my body just responds different. Has been super hard to be productive fasting for me. Have spent most of the time laying down watching movies or as of today, looking at food on the internet

Good mental training though, and I'm sure it's doing something beneficial for my body based on all I've read.

The last 6 hours or so were pretty rough. I was starving + very tired/weak. Could have just been a mental thing knowing it was close to the end. Plus I started feeling pretty warm for a while.

Held out until exactly the 96 hour mark(4 days) and broke the fast with a banana. Had a little bit of supplements, and an hour or so later had an apple with seasame tahini butter on it.

Was still very hungry, but didn't want to spike things/shock my body too much.

Woke up this morning and had another apple with seasame tahini butter, and picked up a big greens juice.

Was feeling super worn out. Wondered if it was because I hadn't had any fats, so couple hours later I went out and got a grass fed lettuce wrapped burger, and a butter bone broth.

I'm still starving, so likely going to hit chipotle for a bowl or two later today. Stomach doesn't hurt at all, just trying to space out meals so levels in my body don't adjust too fast. I think what I'm doing is okay, but not 100% sure. I know some people spend a day or two eating just fruits when coming off a fast, but those are normally for longer ones.

Unfortunately I never got an energy burst/super clarity during the fast. If anything, it happened after 24+ hours on the dry fast. Things got harder when I incorporated water.

Also I thought I'd have energy burst when I started eating again, but maybe it takes some time to kick in. I definitely have significantly less energy now than before I started the fast.

Sleep: I know this varies from person to person. It was really hard for me to sleep while fasting. I got somewhere between 4-6 hours/night. Some people respond the opposite way and slept a lot. Was hoping for that, but didn't happen for me.

Coldness: I started getting cold during the dry fasting phase, and once I introduced water, was still maybe colder than normal but not that much. I got real cold again when I ate for the first time.

Weight: I lost around 8 pounds during the 4 day fast. Obviously a lot of it was probably water weight, but weight flew off.

Senses: Your sense of smell/taste definitely seem to strengthen. Smelling broth seemed like the greatest smell in the world. The first banana I ate tasted like the best banana in the world.

Will I do this again?

I would lean towards yes, as everything I read about the benefits of seem really good. However, I did find something that was not good about it last night related to epstein barr - supposedly if you have epstein barr, autophagy can be blocked, and epstein barr can increase during an autophagy effect unless I'm reading it wrong. So, I'd want to learn more about that before I did it again.

Also, I want to see how my body responds over the next days/weeks.

Post Edited (atxlyme) : 4/9/2018 12:49:42 PM (GMT-6)

Intersting ATX has not been back on the forum since he completed this fast. Maybe it helped alot? Atx, if you happen to see this can you please update? I am also trying one. I am about 60 hours in to a water/tea fast. I also am feeling a little lethargic and cold, not too bad though. I will report if I get any positive effects when I break.