Buhner protocol help - $932 just to get started...

I’m going to try treatment for lyme, babesia, and bartonella using buhner’s protocol. The books have additional protocol requirements than the website and I want to follow the books as closely as possible but for my first order it looks like it will cost $932, which may last just around a month and several things will need to be refilled around the 2 week marker (most of the tinctures). I switched to as many bulk powders as possible to help save costs because tinctures are ridiculously expensive and only last 2 weeks at protocol dosage.

Can anyone provide any comment on the protocol, maybe some things are not necessary. Since many categories overlap, I shifted somethings around so that I only have one occurrence of an herb (meaning I don’t repeat Japanese knotweed three times for lyme, babesia, etc.):

LYME CORE PROTOCOL

Endothial Protection
Japanese Knotweed (Polygonum root) - powder

Cytokine Remodulation
Red Sage (Salvia miltiorrhiza, Dan Shen) - powder
Chinese Skullcap (Scutelleria baicalensis) - powder

Immune Remodulation
Cat's claw bark (Uncaria tomentosa) - powder
Cordyceps mycelium - powder
Ashwaganda (Withania somnifera) - powder
Rhodolia - tincture
Licorice - tincture

Antispirochetal
Andrographis - powder

Neuroborreliosis
Uncaria rhynchophylla (Chinese Cat's Claw, Gou-Teng) - tincture
Tryptophan - pills

Sleep disturbrance/insomnia/anxiety
Motherwort (Leonurus cardiac) - tincture
Schisandra chinensis - tincture
Greater celandine - tincture

Protect Collagen Structures
Great Lakes gelatin - powder

MYCOPLASMA PROTOCOL

Cytokine cascade
NAC - pills
Kudzu root (Pueraria labata) - tincture

Antibacterials
Isatis (2/3 root, 1/3 leaves) - powder
Houttuynia cordata - tincture

Organ Support
Sida acuta - tincture
Red root (caenothus spp.) - powder

BARTONELLA PROTOCOL

Cytokine cascade
EGCG - pills
Quercertin - pills

Organ protection
Milk thistle (standardized to 80% silymarin) - pills
Hawthorn (Crataegus oxyacantha) - tincture

Antibacterials
Alchornea - tincture

BABESIA PROTOCOL (USE FOR 3O TO 60 DAYS, REPEAT IF NECESSARY)

Antibabesial herbs

Cryptolepis sanguinolenta - tincture
Bidens pilosa - tincture

Your cost may be significantly less if you don't need the recommended doses, so be encouraged. I would not recommend starting out at the suggested doses. The counsel on this forum has always been start low & go slow. That has served me well in several ways. One, it decreases the potential for severe herxing. Two, by going so low I found that I have successfully been treating my symptoms at really low doses, which adds up to much savings. You might also be successful at low doses.

And please don't start all those herbs at one time! You can throw yourself into a strong detox scenario & you won't know which herbs to cut back on. It is best to introduce 1 herb at a time at a low dose so you can monitor your response & know if you need to back off on that herb if the detox becomes too strong.

With all that in mind, you don't need to start off buying all those products at one time if putting out that much money up front is an issue. Choose the symptoms of disease you want to concentrate on & buy those herbs first.

And remember to get a good detox protocol started first before you address infections. I thought I was good to go on my detox protocol before I started taking herbs & I was in for a rude awakening when the herxing started. These herbs are very strong, at least for my sensitive system. Read up on all & implement the recommended detox supports so you are ready. There is lots of info on this site as well as others.

Best to you.

Just wanted to say you've been given some good advice already...and good luck!

One thing that Buhner mentions over and over is that not every herb is needed for everyone. Sometimes (rarely) just Japanese Knotweed and Cats Claw is enough for Lyme.

Good luck and keep us updated!!

One of my docs told me a great strategy to get supplement costs down that he uses wth his patients. Drop one supplement/herb that you feel is the least essential and see if your symptoms worsen... if they do, you know you need it, if they don’t then you probably don’t have to buy it again and you’ve saved some money.

Hi Cppoly, I have been shopping around on the internet myself and making a list of all the herbs/supplements I need as I am going to try the Buhner protocol myself.. I am also using all of Buhners recommended sources.. I am just courious how many ounces for each tincture you plan on ordering because I wanted to see if I could help because with all the looking around on the internet for all the things I need I think I've found the best prices I can find for each one.. So I added all of your things up just to see if I was able to lower the price you came to.. In doing so I can to a SIGNIFICANTLY lower price then what you added yours up to be.. So that is why I an wondering how many ounces you accounted for each one?

Woodland Essence also has a JK Plus blend of JK, Cat's Claw, Licorice, Cordyceps (which are on your list) plus Eleuthero. get the big bottle to stretch your $$$.

Start with the core items that are common across the three B's. I agree with others to rotate in the other items to test effectiveness or to treat specific symptoms. I had a rule that when I add a new supplement I drop one that I feel has marginal benefit. And to steal a comment from Bryan Rosner's latest book (loosely quoted)... "just because something you tried didn't work in the past doesn't mean it won't work if you take it again in the future". It's all a crap shoot.

Shop around and look for discount codes, BOGO, and free shipping when you can get it.

Have you tried any of these? You might not tolerate some, have no use for others, and get significant benefit from a minority. Knotweed, cat's claw, and andrographis (allergic reactions for some) are the herbs that have helped me most; skullcap will knock me out with drowsiness for over 12 hours, EGCG and quercetin will give me a migraine, and I'm allergic to milk thistle. I would start with the essentials and slowly add others over weeks.

sandyfeet said...
By the way I found dacarte3’s comments on how he cycles his herbs at the end of your cordyceps post most interesting. Depending on where you are in treatment I think exploring minimal protocols or cycling things in and out is an interesting discussion.

I’ve been going over Buhner’s books repeatedly times looking for a more compact protocol for a bit now based on which herbs seem to have the strongest effect for me, testing higher doses in these, cycling out some I feel I may have been on too long, and focusing on core ones (for me) like the bakail skullcap and red sage.

Interested to hear other comments.

I've read all of Buhner's books including his herbal anti-bacterial book (which isn't any one specific infection(s) book).

It was reading this book specifically, that made me realize that if you understand the herbs front and back, what they do and how they do it then you can use Buhner foundational ground work but then create your own "custom" protocols.

Step 1: pick 2 to 3 herbs that are potent antibacterials. Be diverse and choose one that's borrelia, one that is Bart one that is Babs (the 3 Bs).

Step 2: pick 2 to 3 anti-inflammatory/cytokine reducing herbs. Be diverse and choose the ones down regulate an array of negative cascades. One may greatly reducing ABC and the other XYZ. And up regulate an array of positive cascades. These are all listed in his book and you can take those cascades and googling them to understand what they are and what they do.

Step 3: pick 2 to 3 immune boosters

Step 4: pick 2 to 3 organ protectors (kidneys, liver, heart, CNS, circulatory system/blood cells, cellular protection).

Many of these herbs have functions that cross different steps. But even if you do 2 of each or 3 of each, it's 8-12 herbs versus 25 to 30 herbs.

Take all 8-12 or if you can't handle that many (like me) do 5-6 herb rotations and keep the rotations tight if you are going to rotate. Don't take several weeks off anyone protocol.

Wow.. all these prices you are talking about seem crazy to me .. I buy all my herbs from the Uk they seem much cheaper than the prices quoted here for example 1 litre of 1:3 jk tincture works out at 44 dollars

Girlie said...

Spanish said...
Wow.. all these prices you are talking about seem crazy to me .. I buy all my herbs from the Uk they seem much cheaper than the prices quoted here for example 1 litre of 1:3 jk tincture works out at 44 dollars

But don't make the mistake of buying the cheapest herbs you can find...you do want quality herbs.

I typically purchase my herbal tinctures from either Woodland Essence or Sage Woman Herbs.

I ran out of Hawthorne one time - forgot to order it with my previous order from WE

I went to the local health food store and bought a tincture there made by a small local company - thought it would be good quality.
It didn't taste right. It was very bitter. The WE Hawthorne has a distinct flavor. They use fresh flowers, leaf and dried berries.

I don't know what the other one used to make it...but obviously not the same 'formula'.

Im sure you are right and not all companies offer the same quality. Although I have nothing else to compare it to im pretty happy with what im using.

The company seems to have a good reputation and their JK definitely works, just a few drops made me herx at first.
Since starting JK and cats claw a few months ago Ive noticed a big improvement

Spanish said...
Wow.. all these prices you are talking about seem crazy to me .. I buy all my herbs from the Uk they seem much cheaper than the prices quoted here for example 1 litre of 1:3 jk tincture works out at 44 dollars

Wow that's awesome. Care to share the website(s)?

Cppoly, at first I had woodland Essence for most of your tinctures with a few exceptions of another brand Buhner recommends that I know are on sale somewhere.. I was still able to get the price quit a bit lower then the ammount you came up with.. Then I switched some of your tinctures to sage woman herbs and was able to drop the price a whole lot more.. Also I don't know where you planned to get your powdered herbs? That may also make a huge difference in how I was able to lower the price.. For that I used a few different sources all of them being Buhners top choices.. One of them that he has referenced to as one of the best I have found have some exceptional prices.. There are also certain places that offer a 10% discount on your entire order, free shipping, and an additional $10 off on your 1st order.. So that also helps.. There are other websites that offer discounts and have discount codes.. Especially if it's your 1st time ordering.. There is another one that offeres like 10% off
for just entering your email address then an additional 20% off your entire order of your first 3 orders.. Things like that can help in saving money on herbs/supplements.. As you know Lyme & Co can be a pretty expensive disease.. So every little bit helps.. That is why I wish Woodland Essence offered even some small discount of some sort if your purchasing quite a large order.. I also have a friend in the medical field that is able to get me wholesale prices on any herbs/supplements in which they have an account with.. Which is Great for supplements but as far as herbs/tinctures there is only 1 brand that I am aware of SO Far that they carry as being one that Buhner recommends.. Unless wise woman herbals is one of them.. It is the brand I know that a lot of Dr's use.. Speaking of that dose Anyone know if that is an acceptable brand or one that Buhner has ever recommend?? Anyways.. If you would like me to send you a list either on here or to your email of all your herbs/ supplements on your list with the places i found them with and their prices just let me know..

I would also recommend you start with either capsules or tablets for Andographis at first.. Not only would that reduce the cost at the moment but mostly because if you have read the book you know about the chance of there being an allergic reaction to it.. Which I obviously hope that does not happen..But on the chance that it dose then you will be stuck with a whole pound of it that will wide up being a waste that you won't be able to use.. So I would recommend starting of with it in pill form first to see how your body responds.. I also agree with what Kzkabod said I would suggest starting out with one at a time at a very low dose of just a few drops at a time.. Then waiting a few days before introducing the next one and so on.. I say that for many different reasons but mostly because that way you will know what effect that herb is having on you. Or say you start having a bad reaction then your not going to have any idea which one is causing it.. This is just another suggestion but I would not start out purchasing 8oz of motherwort.. As that may not even work for you at all.. Then you'll probably be upset that you wasted $72.. If I were going to purchase that large of an amount for anything starting out it would be one of the core essential herbs if anything or something I already knew I was going to greatly benefit from.. I also think you have a few herbs that maybe be overlapping in that department so you may find that you may not need that.. I do not know what your symptoms are.. If I did I may be able to tweak a few thing that may be of help in also reducing the price.. I did notice you don't have Eleuthero down but have Rhodolia listed.. I am guessing that you substituted that? Also If you wanted to change licorice to powdered for its incredibly cheep for a Lb of it. Same with milk thistle.. After you know how you respond to the herbs individually you have the option
to purchase tinctures with a lot of herbs you need already combined together so that could definitely save money down the road.. I also agree with what Decarte3 said i think thats also a good idea.. I think for the most part you have been given some good advive from everyone..

Post Edited (Angel07) : 5/22/2018 2:30:23 AM (GMT-6)