Best way to hit Bart and babs at the same time. What would you all do?

Hello I’d really like to get some advice on the best protocols you all have found to be effective for both Babs and Bart at the same time. We’ve been trying to address both at the same time and after a year of treatment, symptoms still continue to bounce back and forth depending on which pathogen is most dominant. They both are a big problem and as soon as we make head way with one, the other hits with a ton of bricks.
I know most don’t combine rifampin with mepron but our doc does. He does use the higher dose of mepron at 2tsp 2x day. But he also wants to use 1200 mg of rifampin combined with 300 mg doxy, and 500 mg zyth. We’ve already got some good herbs for babesia in the mix... crypto and artemisinin. Also have any of your doctors prescribed that high of a dose of rifampin. I’ve only gotten my daughter up to 600 mg and am holding there. Also worry that too much rifampin with make the mepron useless.

Any of you experienced lymies have a better way or protocol that I could check in to? Should I try to switch out the rifampin with something different for Bart? Need something strong on board, my gut tells me not to back down on either of these bugs. Feeling as though they are unbeatable and am at a loss.

Post Edited (Upatnite) : 4/26/2019 5:12:47 PM (GMT-6)

Thanks bluelyme, but that just hasn’t been the case for my daughter. She still herxes as we rotate through babesia meds. Our dr wanted to try some primaquine recently and after being on zyth/ mepron and herbs for babesia for 8 months, she’s herxing on primaquine. Unless the primaquine is hitting something else, she’s having a babesia herx. Not sure what else to think.
I am interested in trying the Zhang herbs for bartonella though. Thanks for the reminder

Yes I’ve thought about her maybe having fl1953. We use an ART dr on the side and I asked him about it. He makes suggestions for antibiotics and herbs based on what he picks up. He seems to consistently find Bartonella and babesia with Lyme. I don’t have 100 percent confidence in that type of testing, but have relied on it to a degree to have peace of mind that she’s getting what she needs medication wise if there was an unknown bug that needed treatment. Occasionally he will get a virus or mycoplasma too that needs more work. However after a year, without much improvement it’s possible we are missing something big like that.

For artemisinin we use a liposomal blend from Hopkinton drug, but maybe switching to Zhang’s herbs for bartonella and babesia would be better?

I worry too about the coQ10 and mepron. I don’t think you’re suppose to supplement with that while taking mepron though.

Won't comment on the abx, those doses seem huge though... with herbals for babesia specifically I find the greatest effect in rotating through them week to week ie wormwood then crypto+sida repeat.
For whatever reason babesia seems to grow tolerant to long exposures to therapies of any kind. My doctor agrees. Also consider wormwood tea over artemisinin capsules or both... there are chemical constituents in the tea that are not present in the artemisinin that prevent liver enzyme induction and increased metabolism of the active compounds therefore increasing duration of effect but also partially active compounds that seem to surmount this tolerance effect and potentiate the antibabesial effect of the artemisinin present. There are studies where just wormwood dried leaf was able to treat recalcitrant malaria when abx and artemisinin couldn't. It saved lives. Anyway, just my experience with it.

Also, sleep, sleep, sleep, no matter what you have to take to get it.

I’m currently treating Bartonella and Babesia at the same time - for just over 2 months using Beyond Balance MC BAR 1 and MC BAB 1. I have noticed some positive changes but it’s been INCREDIBLY difficult re: herxes. 1 drop is potent, but I have heard good things about Beyond Balance as well as Byron White. I’m also taking Cognease and Cognease detox. Most of my symptoms are neurological. You could try the Beyond Balance formulas along with Cryptolepis and Wormwood. Have you tried the IHA formula from Woodland Essence for Bart? It has Isatis, Houttuynia and Alchornea. There is also a CSA combo for Babesia which has Crypto, Sida Acuta and Alchornea. Both those combos together would hit Bart and Babs pretty well - mind you...likely very STRONG!

I am not yet stable enough to introduce those herb combos but as soon as I am i’ll be adding in those combo tinctures in very low doses on-top of the Beyond Balance.

Thanks for the responses regarding beyond balance and Byron white herbs. We’ve used both and rotated them for several years prior to my daughters relapse, I relied on them hoping they’d help prevent relapse. Always felt they were strong too. Looking back now, for my daughter I feel like it wasn’t enough. Seemed to just keep symptoms at bay so for now we are trying to treat more aggressively. I’d love to be able to switch to herbals at some point, but for now I’m taking a break from those because we used them for a long time. Trying some Buhner herbs with antibiotics now.

Thanks Girlie. My daughter is 16 and I can’t get myself to go above 600mg rifampin, at least not yet. Her dr has not mentioned rifabutin but she’s herxing on rifampin so I’m ok with that. I’m more worried about loosing the mepron but he is tying to account for the loss with the higher dose of mepron and herbs. Recently added primaquine.
I’m too afraid to try fluroquinolones due to the black box warning as well. What do you think about the dose of doxy being 300mg a day? That seems low to me? She doesn’t weigh much though... about 85 pounds so maybe that a good dose.

Ok thanks Girlie. I will check on that.