(Update) TUDCA - anybody find this to be noticeably helpful?

I have definitely found Tudca helpful in keeping my liver blood work in normal ranges. My liver enzymes were slightly elevated, as well as my ast and alt.. which I read indicate some gallbladder sluggishness. After taking Tudca all these levels went down to normal ranges. I can't really say that I felt the changes, but for me the proof was in the blood work. I just used the nutricost brand since it's not too expensive like the Microbe brand. I like what Microbe formulas in terms of their philosophy but I just think many of their supplements are overpriced.

I have had exactly the same experience at JayP12: I can't actually feel it working but it has a significant effect on my liver test results. It's a bit like milk thistle that way.

UPDATE:

Most recently (3 weeks ago), I started taking TUDCA Plus from Microbe Formulas, 1 capsule 2x day. I didn’t expect anything to change symptom wise, so I didn’t think too much about it until about 2 weeks in. By that time, I had noticed that I had been feeling better physically and was able to walk more, etc, and felt less inflammatory pain for about 2 weeks. After checking the timing, I found it coincided with starting TUDCA.

During the 2 week period of improvement, I had brief flares of various symptoms, but they resolved quickly and I still felt better overall. Just after the 2 weeks (last weekend), I had a bad flare of mold and chemical sensitivities where I was smelling mold toxins on some clothes and other things and was waking up with weird head and neck pressure. I was getting headaches and nausea and intestinal discomfort.

All that had me confused and in a tizzy for about 4-5 days. Then it passed and I had improvements again. Since TUDCA is supposed to increase bile flow, I’m thinking it helped clear my liver out some (making me feel better) and also increased backed up toxins getting released in the bile (causing flares in between improvements).

If I am right about this being from TUDCA, and I continue to experience the same ongoing, then TUDCA Plus may end up being a game changer for me. There are precious few things I have tried that really gave me any lasting improvements or help.

wow, good to hear

I don't think it would have a negative impact on other herbs/supplements because it is essentially a form of bile. It is a synthetic version of something that is naturally produced by humans in small amounts.

Apparently it has been used in TCM for the last few thousand years. They got/get it from bears, who produce it in high amounts. Some think it plays a role in bears' ability to hibernate.

Pretty interesting stuff!

Rainycloud,

Yes. The TUDCA Plus is a very expensive supplement. Wouldn’t that be my luck - one of the most expensive supplements being noticeably helpful. Like I said, I read some user comments that said this brand helped when other brands did nothing. I have heard similar comments about their Mimosa pudica vs other mimosa supplements. I think they do have good quality products, but yes they are overpriced.

I updated another thread earlier today because I couldn’t find this one. Something bad has happened.

Around mid-March after 2 months of taking and having improvement in symptoms with TUDCA Plus, the symptoms that had gone away started coming back and getting progressively worse - especially numbness, burning in tops of feet and toes, and what feels like toxin-induced inflammation. I have come to associate those symptoms with probable MCAS. While the burning feet and toes will often start while I am eating, today it has been pretty much an all day affair.

I am at a loss as to why this has come back and progressively worsened after disappearing for 2 months. I was sure the TUDCA was the reason those symptoms went away. I can only come up with 3 likely explanations.

1. I walked into a very moldy building on March 10th. Symptoms started returning in the days soon after.

If this is it, why would the symptoms keep progressing for weeks after?

2. I started ADP Oregano around mid-March but have only taken it intermittently. Symptoms don’t seem to correlated to the timing of when I have taken oregano, though.

3. I started the 3rd bottle of TUDCA Plus around mid-March. Maybe it’s a bad/ineffective batch?

Georgia, you seem to have the right combo of knowledge to maybe help me out.

I have had this underlying autoimmune issue for years, which I think started not long after a vaccine, but i cant be sure. Had fatigue and some small nerve pain. In april of 2019, my functional med dr put me on T3/T4 supplementation for an "underactive thyroid". 10 days later my nerve pain EXPLODED. I've been on IVIG ever since.

Fast forward to February 12th. I get my TUDCA. I start taking it. On feb 15th, i develop a SEVERE reaction to IVIG. Joint pain EVERYWHERE, rash on my feet. I'm thinking its RA, but by early march we figure out its an allergic reaction and I'm put on prednisone. The joint pain goes down, but my nerve pain starts spreading until its full body. I've since realized that the more prednisone i take, the more aggressive my nerve pain gets.

I know my issue is autoimmune, but every time I take a supplement that affects the liver/HPA axis, I get worse. T3/T4 precipitated the onset of acute nerve disease. The Tudca (which is known to affect T3 levels) may have caused an allergic reaction. The prednisone, which is basically synthetic cortisol, caused an explosion of nerve pain that almost put me in the ER.

What might you think is going on? My glucose and liver labs are normal. In addition, cortisol/prednisone lowers the immune system, so the fact that it flares it for me is odd. Cortisol triggers a release of glucose, so i'm thinking that my neuropathy could actually be metabolic in some way?


Also, PLEASE NOTE:

After hearing about Tudca on this board, I read a lot about it. Supposedly tamps down inflammation, and is great for diabetics. I recommended it ot my father who is a diabetic. He took it for 1 day and his blood sugar immediately spiked to 400 and he almost feinted. It took 3 days to return to normal. This is quite confusing as everything i read implies the contrary.

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 4/6/2020 6:53:17 AM (GMT-6)

Georgia Hunter,

I’m looking at your last paragraph again. Mold exposure could cause a high fungal load (assuming certain doctors are correct in their assumption of mold colonizing the gut). Actinobacteria could have increased because of high fungal load in the gut. (Actinobacteria possibly increased simply due to exposure to water damaged buildings - there’s a LOT to this, not just mold.). Actinobacteria produce antifungal chemicals to reduce the fungal presence in the GI tract (= biotoxins to which my immune system reacts like a nut).

TUDCA will help, you say. Will it help normalize my microbiome? Will the symptoms that returned go away again if I continue taking TUDCA?

—————-
POST EDIT:

On March 14th, I took mushroom supplements capsules). I clearly had a negative response to it the day after and took no more. This may be what started the return of those symptoms.

Mushrooms increase immune response due partly to beta glucans. Beta glucans are one of the inflammatory particles found in water damaged buildings that trigger CIRS. By taking those capsules, I introduced additional fungal particles into my GI tract that could have caused unintended activity/responses from other organisms present in the GI tract. Basically I just reintroduced CIRS by taking those capsules.

But why would TUDCA and oregano not have counteracted the damage by now and instead let the symptoms get progressively worse?

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 4/6/2020 7:43:09 AM (GMT-6)

dcd2103, not sure I can help with something that is autoimmune and that complex. The enzyme that is responsible for converting thyroid hormone is the same used during an infection. If you run low of that enzyme, the thyroid is the one that suffers. I can't remember its name but it does have iodine in it. Have you ever supplemented iodine or ate iodine rich foods? It would be something I consider. It may cause you issues as well.

Whatever your problems are, it can be put into one of three categories. 1: genetics - you may have issues with epigenetic shifts after this much time, but it isn't the cause of your issues, just the result. 2 Environment - something may have contaminated you like a toxin, pathogen, or other disease causing agent. Lack of nutrients falls into this category as well. 3. Microbiome - your microbiome gets altered and that causes problems. All of us have this problem, the real issue is the extent of the problem. Really sick people have a really bad microbiome. This causes a lack of nutrients and can cause epigenetic shifts. So the question is, did something injected into cause an issue or another pathogen or group of pathogens cause you an issue. Usually it is the pathogens and they cause the change in the microbiome. It could be aluminum toxicity from a vaccination combined with a disseminated pathogen, but who knows.

Neuropathy can be from something simple as a mineral imbalance. Copper can do it, but other deficiencies can as well. There are genetic issues in blood that can do it. I like the mini-trampolines for bouncing for neuropathy patients. It makes the blood move.

Not sure I want to speculate what happened to your Dad. Sorry I can't help but I will do a little searching. COVID has me pretty wrapped up these days.

K07, there is absolutely nothing worse to me than typing a long post and losing it. That just happened responding to your question. I'll try to answer later, I'm too pissed right now. A lot of what I write is from my head and I can't reproduce it.

Walking, I'll get around to you too but I don't have any good answers to your questions. You have really hard questions that I don't think I can answer.

Hello WalkingbyFaith. Did you continue the TUDCA? Did you find out why you had the reaction? If I understand correctly TUDCA is a bile acid? Is this similar to bile salts? I know with bile salts, it cannot be taken if one has an alkaline stomach as it can further alkalize it. I am curious if that is what happened with TUDCA. I haven't confirmed if it is an alkaline substance but if it is, then it could have exacerbated whatever unwelcome bacteria/fungal growth you had in your gut. Potentially worsening some of your symptoms. That’s what happened to me when I took bile salts. My SIBO/CANDIDA blew up. I hope this wasn’t the case for you but any update? Thanks.