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Posted 1/25/2020 4:30 PM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone, I'm new to these forums. Diagnosed with lyme this past October after having flu-like symptoms. Did a month of various antibiotics but couldn't tolerate most of them, so switched to the Cowden protocol offered by My LLMD. My most bothersome issue has been my eyes...burning sensation, blurriness, redness, dryness, pain etc. I added stephania tetrandra tincture for the eye issues as suggested by Buhner and have been taking that for around 2 months now. I also make a decoction of the stephania root and use that as an eye wash,as also suggested by Buhner. My eyes were much better until the end of Decemberwhen the eye symptoms started returning and worsening. I must mention that I also tested positive via PCR urine test for Bartonella and Ehrlichia, although weirdly that test was negative for lyme!

Anyhow, currently I am at the point in the Cowden protocol where I started the Enula and Houttuynia 2 days ago. Right after taking the first dose of Enula (2 drops), I felt some lower back pain which I dismissed as probably due to something else. I increased the dose as per the protocol yesterday (to 4 and then 6 drops). In the meantime, along with Enula, I was supposed to start Houttuynia that evening at 30 drops. I didn't want to start off so high, so I started at 5 drops and everything seemed fine. The next day (yesterday), I increased the Houttuynia to 20 drops both for the lunchtime dose and the night dose. By evening yesterday, my lower back pain had increased significantly and was also there on my right flank towards the back. I also got these random stabbing pains in the pelvic/vaginal areas. This morning the pain is reduced but I decided to cut down the Enula to 1 drop and thinking of cutting down Houttuynia to maybe 10 drops for the next dose??

Have any of you encountered these symptoms while on Enula or Houttuynia. I really hope it's not the houttuynia doing this as I need it to treat my Bart! sad

Thank you for any insight. This site has a ton of info!
Posted 1/25/2020 4:42 PM (GMT 0)
Hi there, and welcome!

I think these symptoms are flaring for you because you are treating the Bartonella and herxing. Jumping from 5 to 20 drops (x2!) in one day isn't a slow start for a sensitive person. I would start at one drop and increase over the course of weeks, but everyone's level of sensitivity varies. The recommended dose is almost never something I can tolerate. Keep in mind that if you are herxing from a dose, no matter how small it may be, then you are at an effective dose for you. I understand wanting to make progress quickly, but overloading your system can set you back and destabilize you further. Houttuynia is known to cause strong Bartonella herxes, which seems to be what's going on for you. That's not a bad sign, just a sign to slow way down so that your body can keep up with the die-off and related inflammation that are causing you issues right now.

I don't know much about Enula, so maybe someone can chime in about that one.

Good luck! I hope you find some relief soon.
Posted 1/25/2020 5:06 PM (GMT 0)
I know burning eyes is definitely a sign of Bart, which is a good sign for you since you’re treating right now! Keep going!


You sound so intelligent Saraeli! I always love reading your replies. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Posted 1/25/2020 5:30 PM (GMT 0)
HeartsinPain, that is so sweet of you to say! I never want to come across as judgmental, dismissive, or domineering, since goodness knows those attitudes are represented plenty on our interactions with non-Lyme-literate world. So much is uncertain with this illness that we have to believe things will help us yet also keep an open mind about other theories and options, and support each other in the twists and turns our bodies take us on, learning from each other's experiences, and just holding each other's hands sometimes (metaphorically) when things are just blatantly awful. If in the midst of that jumble of goals, I can sound intelligent, then I am thrilled to hear it!

Nice, as HeartsinPain mentioned, people generally ascribe most eye symptoms to Bartonella. Don't be surprised if eye symptoms and neurological symptoms (including psych symptoms, spine and nerve pain, stabbing sensations, etc.) ramp up a little while you start attacking Bartonella directly. It's not pleasant, but it can mean you are on the right track. Just go slowly and don't push too hard.
Posted 1/25/2020 7:10 PM (GMT 0)
Are eye symptoms bart? Could the redness & blurry vision not be mast cells?
Posted 1/25/2020 8:54 PM (GMT 0)
Good catch, Aerose. Definitely makes sense to look into MCAS, and mold as well.
Posted 1/25/2020 9:29 PM (GMT 0)
I'm not taking houttuynia or enula (only artemisinin, mimosa pudica, and some andrographis right now, because of some slight dizziness and air hunger a few weeks ago), but I definitely have the back pain.

I've been having pains the past few weeks intermittently for the past few weeks,from my upper back to my thigh muscles. It seems to be mostly focused mostly in my lower back right around my waist, and my right side under my rib cage (spleen?).

The pain drives me nuts because it never seems to be coming from a specific part of my back, and it is definitely not like a kidney stone (I've had those before).
Posted 1/26/2020 4:29 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you saraeli, you are right...i probably started too much too soon. I backed down to 1 drop Enula and 5 drops Houttuynia. The low pack pain has subsided and I felt better. But this morning I started having this pressure feeling/stiffness in the back of my neck/lower head. Not sure if it's a herx or what. If it continues, I will lower the houttuynia drops and maybe even cut out enula fora bit.
Posted 1/26/2020 4:32 PM (GMT 0)
Heartsinpain, yes, I'm sure it's the Bart causing the eye issues. My LLMD suggested using Argentyn 23 silver hydrosol and the burning and stinging seems to have subsided, for now at least. Still have blurriness though.
Posted 1/26/2020 4:40 PM (GMT 0)
Aerose, I have had near perfect vision with only the starting of slight age related far sightedness until my lyme diagnosis. If mold or MCAS was the cause of my eye problems, wouldn't they have shown up prior to my lyme diagnosis? Nevertheless, I am considering testing for mold....my LLMD gave me a urine send out kit for mold testing. I don't have any allergies or known sensitivies to food, chemicals or drugs, so not sure I should test for MCAS...
Posted 1/26/2020 4:43 PM (GMT 0)
Notime4lyme, I can totally relate! These random pains from random parts of the body drives me nuts! Hope you find answers and relief soon!
Posted 1/26/2020 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
Most tests for MCAS aren't accurate unless you have been triggered in the past 12 hours, and a lot of people have no idea what their triggers are. It would be so much simpler if it were just known allergies and sensitivities! You're right that it presents that way for a lot of people, but your symptoms could be general inflammation, digestive, headaches, brain fog, and lots of other things you might not connect to mast cells. Some people get MCAS flares from high-histamine food, showers, heat, cold, stress, exercise, and environmental pollutants - tough stuff to track, in many cases. For me, cutting out high-histamine foods created a complete resolution of brain fog immediately - that was my diagnosis! I have stuck to a low-histamine diet and taken quercetin since, and my tolerance for treatments and herxing has improved as a result. I never had allergy symptoms, skin issues, or the other "classic" signs.

I'm not saying that you definitely have MCAS, of course, just that it's sneakier than many people realize, and also can be pretty straightforward to treat.
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