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Lyme Disease
Is it coming for us all?
Yes - 50.8% - 31 votes
No - 49.2% - 30 votes
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Posted 8/27/2020 12:09 AM (GMT 0)

skinny_joe said...
Where do you find these sites? I cant even click on them sometimes without getting warnings about the sites sometimes.

summit.news
wistia.net
lbry.tv

summit.news is run by a guy the media and politicians hate so he gets banned/blocked all the time. his opinions are unpopular although the "facts" he reports are rarely disputed. yes you might disagree his opinions, but there's no reason he should be censored.

Sadly most non-corporate controlled media is actively blocked or suppressed by google and the other search engines. Unapproved information and ideas about anti-vaccine stuff, doctors who support HCQ, will get you banned from facebook, youtube, twitter, etc. Big tech and media interfere with your life everyday, just most people can't see it and don't care if they do.
Posted 8/27/2020 12:14 AM (GMT 0)
For anyone looking for factual but short videos on Covid news and anaylsis of actual facts, infection rates verses people who are actual sick and dying, look up "tony heller" on youtube. Best 5 minutes you spend every day and you won't be so darn scared all the time.

Most of us stand a better chance of dying from chronic lyme than covid19.
Posted 8/27/2020 12:55 AM (GMT 0)

dcd2103 said...
I’m just curious what people make of this Harvey Risch epidemiologist at Yale still touting HCQ? The dude has 325 original publications and an h-index of 88, which I was just reading about, it means he’s pretty freakin legit.

If HCQ is as useless as it sounds like the studies are saying, why is this happening? What is going on there?

He has nothing to lose. If he's wrong people won't remember him. He will move on and continue doing his work. If he's right he's god like. There's a term for this type of play in financial markets I can't remember though.
Posted 8/27/2020 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
asymmetrical risk. Not sure I buy that tho as this thing has become so politicized being on the wrong side of it could ruin a reputation...
Posted 8/27/2020 4:44 PM (GMT 0)

Louise74 said...
Actually the CDC just updated their guidelines today... People without symptoms, won't be required to get covid tested if someone that they came in contact with tests positive.


This appears to have been a decision made more by the White House Coronavirus Task Force than by the CDC. Now we have to wonder if politics are involved here as well. Apparently the debate about it took place while Fauci was having throat surgery, and with newest appointee Dr. Scott Atlas (radiologist with no expertise in infectious diseases) arguing in strong support. Why argue for less testing?

“The only plausible rationale,” Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York told reporters in a conference call from Albany, N.Y., “is that they want fewer people taking tests, because as the president has said, if we don’t take tests, you won’t know the number of people who are Covid-positive.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/us/politics/coronavirus-testing-trump-cdc.html

Skinny_Joe also mentioned this "plausible rationale" earlier in the thread.
Posted 8/27/2020 5:01 PM (GMT 0)
For those outside the US:

High covid-19 numbers are all Trump's fault.. and the negative impacts of measures to contain the virus are all the Democrats fault..

smile
Posted 8/27/2020 5:19 PM (GMT 0)
Here in Canada - we are shaking our heads about the US leadership during the pandemic.
Posted 8/27/2020 5:41 PM (GMT 0)
Btw - how has the students going back to school gone?

Your kids go back in August right?

Ours’ don’t go back until September - seems like a disastrous situation.

Don’t see how you can get kids to social distance etc
Posted 8/27/2020 5:42 PM (GMT 0)
There was no leadership during this pandemic and there still isn’t. Every state had to fend for itself and figure out what to do.Such a sad reflection on this country.I am sure that you in Canada and the rest of the world are shocked by what you see happening in the US.
Posted 8/27/2020 5:56 PM (GMT 0)
School in my state will start remotely next week. That said they are hoping to start in person in Oct. They are having trouble filling teacher positions along with custodial , etc.
Not sure how this will all play out. You are right Girlie very difficult to get kids to social distance.
Posted 8/27/2020 6:09 PM (GMT 0)
My kids also start next Monday, all virtual. I'm in PA, but it's up to each individual school district. Not sure how many, if any, are having in-person learning...
Posted 8/27/2020 6:33 PM (GMT 0)
It's not a bad thing to let the states make their own decisions regarding Covid response, as the virus has not affected states equally - stark contrast is SD and NY. Governors Newsom (CA) and Cuomo (NY) were praising President Trump back in the thick of it. Cuomo just bashed the White House response to virus at the DNC. That sounds like politics to me.

NY deaths per million - 1,696
FL deaths per million - 506

Dr. Fauci praises the state with the most Covid deaths.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/18/fauci-holds-up-new-york-as-model-for-fighting-coronavirus-they-did-it-correctly.html

I wonder what Fauci would say about Sweden - 576 deaths per million.

Keep in mind that we were doing a lot less testing when NY had their spike.

Post Edited (ChristianWithLyme) : 8/27/2020 12:36:00 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/27/2020 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
CWL: I mentioned Fauci being absent from debate along with Atlas being present to highlight a reduction in the scientific quality of the group. Some have tried to paint Fauci as corrupt, but never unqualified. The appointing of Atlas to a position that he is so highly unqualified for is a red flag for corruption in and of itself.

Cuomo is a politician so yeah. But you gotta wonder if there's merit to what he and Skinny_Joe have said.
Posted 8/27/2020 7:09 PM (GMT 0)
NY has the one and only NYC, and they got hit early on when we were much less prepared.. not really fair to make the comparisons you want to make

Fauci's quotes from the CNBC link:

“We know that, when you do it properly, you bring down those cases. We have done it. We have done it in New York,” Fauci said in an interview on “PBS NewsHour.”

“New York got hit worse than any place in the world. And they did it correctly by doing the things that you’re talking about,” he continued.

What's the problem there?

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 8/27/2020 1:14:11 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/27/2020 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
well here ya go. Largest study of HCQ yes. meta-analysis included 11,932 participants for the hydroxychloroquine group, 8,081 for the hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin group and 12,930 for the control group.

HCQ had no effect on covid at all. HCQ + AZM caused greater mortality, ie it killed patients.

So once again we see this drug does nothing for covid.

Somebody said...


Effect of hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin on the mortality of COVID-19 patients: a systematic review and meta-analysis

Abstract

Background

Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without azithromycin have been widely promoted to treat COVID-19 following early in vitro antiviral effects against SARS-CoV-2

Objective

The aim of this systematic review and meta-analysis was to assess whether chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin decreased COVID-19 mortality compared to the standard of care.

Data sources

Pubmed, Web of Science, Embase Cochrane Library, Google Scholar and MedRxiv were searched until 25 July 2020.

Study eligibility criteria

We included published and unpublished studies comparing the mortality rate between patients treated with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin and patients managed with standard of care.

Participants
Patients ≥18 years old with confirmed COVID-19.

Interventions
Chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin.

Methods

Effect sizes were pooled using a random-effects model. Multiple subgroup analyses were conducted to assess the drug safety.

Results

The initial search yielded 839 articles, of which 29 articles met our inclusion criteria. All studies except one were conducted on hospitalized patients and evaluated the effects of hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin. Among the 29 articles, 3 were randomized controlled trials (RCT), one was a non-randomized trial and 25 were observational studies, including 10 with a critical risk of bias and 15 with a serious or moderate risk of bias.

After excluding studies with critical risk of bias, the meta-analysis included 11,932 participants for the hydroxychloroquine group, 8,081 for the hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin group and 12,930 for the control group. Hydroxychloroquine was not significantly associated with mortality: pooled Relative Risk RR=0.83 (95% CI: 0.65-1.06, n=17 studies) for all studies and RR=1.09 (95% CI: 0.97-1.24, n=3 studies) for RCTs. Hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin was associated with an increased mortality: RR=1.27 (95% CI: 1.04-1.54, n=7 studies). We found similar results with a Bayesian meta-analysis.

Posted 8/27/2020 7:44 PM (GMT 0)
CWL: You keep posting Sweden this and Sweden that. How has the US approach differed? A half hearted lockdown is no different then what Sweden is doing. Except for bars closing the lockdown in the US was non existent in most places. You still walked in the grocery store and someone nearly bumping into you Lowes was still open selling flowers to plant outside. People without masks everywhere you go. I could still get ice cream (its food and needed) for survival.
Posted 8/27/2020 8:24 PM (GMT 0)

ChristianWithLyme said...
It's not a bad thing to let the states make their own decisions regarding Covid response, as the virus has not affected states equally - stark contrast is SD and NY. Governors Newsom (CA) and Cuomo (NY) were praising President Trump back in the thick of it. Cuomo just bashed the White House response to virus at the DNC. That sounds like politics to me.

NY deaths per million - 1,696
FL deaths per million - 506

Dr. Fauci praises the state with the most Covid deaths.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/18/fauci-holds-up-new-york-as-model-for-fighting-coronavirus-they-did-it-correctly.html

I wonder what Fauci would say about Sweden - 576 deaths per million.

Keep in mind that we were doing a lot less testing when NY had their spike.

Do you understand that he's praising their job after the initial outbreak? He's not comparing deaths.

NYC was already experiencing an out of control outbreak before they knew what hit them. There were big time mistakes made with nursing homes. The 2019 estimate of the NYC area is 8,336,817. Population density of 27,755.25/sq mi.

In comparison, Florida had months to watch the outbreak in the NE and prepare. Greater Miami has has an estimated population of 6,198,782. Pop density of 1,004/sq mi.

We aren't comparing apples to apples here.
Posted 8/27/2020 8:26 PM (GMT 0)
Another thing to consider about Sweden is they only have one urban areas with a population over 1 million. Their second highest urban population is 600K. It's a pretty good guess that the composition of their country helped in their experience with the outbreak. We have been told all along one size doesn't fit all.
Posted 8/27/2020 8:32 PM (GMT 0)
And CA, what’s the explanation there? Illinois? Or do you just pick on Florida?

NY didn’t do anything special, other than bus old timers w covid into nursing homes leading to the biggest death count in the country.

Look at the arc of New York’s cases. Now look at Floridas. Look at what happened in pretty much every locality across the world. An area gets hit with covid, theres a big runup, and then the cases come down. The people get scared and learn to wear masks and social distance. NY was first, that’s all. This is some supreme narrative fitting I’m seeing on here

At the end of the day, you will end up w/ a scenario where Florida gets their situation under control in a couple months just like New York did. And what's the argument then? Apples to apples, except NY will have probably twice the death count because of their nursing home fiasco which killed 12,000. Cant make this liberal lunacy up

Post Edited (FeelingLeftOutGal) : 8/27/2020 2:49:59 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/27/2020 8:45 PM (GMT 0)
It has been said that Atlas has a medical background and a policy background and because of this, may better evaluate the damage from the virus and the damage from lock downs. He has a more balanced approach.

I know NY was hit early on (so was WA and CA if I recall correctly), but Dr. Fauci praises NY's response when they have the highest death count in nation, may shortly be investigated by DOJ for their nursing home policy, and could have attained the lowering of cases via herd immunity and not necessarily because of their actions.

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdowns-and-mask-mandates-do-not-lead-to-reduced-covid-transmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/

Yes, Cuomo tends to think some things are political:

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer issued a joint response calling the Justice Department politicized.

"This is nothing more than a transparent politicization of the Department of Justice in the middle of the Republican National Convention. It’s no coincidence the moment the Trump administration is caught weakening the CDC's COVID-19 testing guidelines to artificially lower the number of positive cases, they launched this nakedly partisan deflection," they wrote."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-requests-data-cuomo-governors-nursing-home-coronavirus-deaths

skinny_joe, I don't think there's any question that Sweden's response to the virus was much different than most countries in the world including the US.

Post Edited (ChristianWithLyme) : 8/27/2020 3:00:27 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 8/27/2020 9:09 PM (GMT 0)
I just downloaded the number of covid cases for each state, and the states population. I then took every state that voted for trump, summed up their total cases, and divided by the population. 1.84% of the population. I did the same for the blue states, 1.64% of the population. Basically the same thing.
Posted 8/27/2020 9:28 PM (GMT 0)

FeelingLeftOutGal said...
And CA, what’s the explanation there? Illinois? Or do you just pick on Florida?

NY didn’t do anything special, other than bus old timers w covid into nursing homes leading to the biggest death count in the country.

Look at the arc of New York’s cases. Now look at Floridas. Look at what happened in pretty much every locality across the world. An area gets hit with covid, theres a big runup, and then the cases come down. The people get scared and learn to wear masks and social distance. NY was first, that’s all. This is some supreme narrative fitting I’m seeing on here

At the end of the day, you will end up w/ a scenario where Florida gets their situation under control in a couple months just like New York did. And what's the argument then? Apples to apples, except NY will have probably twice the death count because of their nursing home fiasco which killed 12,000. Cant make this liberal lunacy up

Did you bother to pay attention to the post I was responding to?
Posted 8/27/2020 9:34 PM (GMT 0)

Somebody said...
I know NY was hit early on (so was WA and CA if I recall correctly), but Dr. Fauci praises NY's response when they have the highest death count in nation, may shortly be investigated by DOJ for their nursing home policy, and could have attained the lowering of cases via herd immunity and not necessarily because of their actions."


Why characterize his two quotes from the article in this way? Just read the quotes it's easy to tell the he's "praising their job after the initial outbreak" as Lyme24 said.

FLOG: That's interesting but I think population densities would be on opposite ends of the spectrum for your comparison
Posted 8/27/2020 9:41 PM (GMT 0)
NY spiked hard, then gained control, and has been control since early June. This is particularly impressive given the size and density of NYC. Some want to argue that NYC is at some level of herd immunity, and while nobody knows for sure, there is not convincing evidence that is true at this point.

Florida kept their transmission somewhat in check through May with the lock down, but then after opening became impatient and jumped over the phased opening guidelines. This resulted in exponential growth that exploded in June.

I have zero respect for Fl's governor who basically threw his hands up and let the virus run roughshod. They had months to come up with a plan after watching the outbreaks in the NE.
Posted 8/27/2020 10:35 PM (GMT 0)
...Hopefully the Fauci-NY tangent is done with.

Back to the CDC/WH Task Force decision... either it's the first step in recognizing that immunity is playing a much larger role in limiting spread of the virus, or it's a corrupt decision meant to drive down covid-19 numbers before the election. Is this a fair assessment? Can't think of any other reason to limit the amount of testing. I guess contact tracing is over?

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 8/27/2020 6:44:50 PM (GMT-6)

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