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Posted 10/6/2020 6:03 PM (GMT 0)
I posted this on Facebook earlier today. Some here may get some benefit from it.

Just had a patient come through the drive through that is recovering from COVID. She, and 12 others, contracted COVID at a funeral. All of them were wearing masks.
As a former Lyme patient, I can say that crying would cause me to have a Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction, also called a Herx. I often speculated that the increase in emotions increased the blood flow to the epithelial tissue in my eyes and nose which allowed my immune system to kill more pathogens that were harbored there and that is what caused the Herx. This seems more plausible now, the increased emotions occurring at funerals increases the blood flow to your eyes and nose which will increase your chances of getting COVID from either increased face touching or increased viral penetration into the epithelium. I would recommend not going to funerals if at all possible but if you do, wear a face shield in addition to a N95 mask.
Posted 10/6/2020 6:26 PM (GMT 0)
Seems more likely that crying increases bodily secretions, spittle, etc, which increases transmission. Everyone is wiping their eyes, touching their face, spitting....wouldnt be surprised if they were hugging.
Posted 10/6/2020 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
The virus is extremely contagious. I don't know exactly where I got it. I didn't have any close contact with anyone that I knew was sick, but I had been to several stores and take-out restaurants. I don't know if herxing had anything to do with it or not.

I got rid of it with atovaquone. This took an entire bottle, as I had to take it for several weeks to make sure the infection was completely gone. This virus is quite persistent, but not nearly as persistent as borrelia.

It sucks, but what am I supposed to do? There are a lot of things I have been putting off for months that I really need to do.
Posted 10/6/2020 6:39 PM (GMT 0)
I got in in an airplane when COVID just became known among people in February.
My case of COVID was mild, for me it was just a bad cough for a month, no other symptoms, no meds.
Quin I don't blame you, life goes on and all.
I hope there's no long term side effects. So far I don't have any.
Posted 10/6/2020 6:53 PM (GMT 0)
I don't seem to have any long term effects, but I tested negative for antibodies, and this is the second time I've gotten infected.

It's not exactly surprising that I got no antibodies, as I also tested negative for antibodies to bartonella. Surprisingly I did test positive for antibodies to borrelia (albeit weakly).
Posted 10/7/2020 8:26 AM (GMT 0)
IMO, most people that have severe reactions to SARS-Co2 have the VDR and SOD mutations. The lack of antioxidant capabilities is what causes their problems.
Posted 10/7/2020 12:32 PM (GMT 0)
I looked it up..
VDR = vitamin d receptor
SOD = superoxide di****ase (breaks down superoxides)

GH: Is there data/personal experience supporting this or is it just speculation on your part?

Edit: It's blocking "d i s m u t a s e"?

Post Edited (potsnpans) : 10/7/2020 6:40:30 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/7/2020 1:48 PM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...
IMO, most people that have severe reactions to SARS-Co2 have the VDR and SOD mutations. The lack of antioxidant capabilities is what causes their problems.

Sounds like somebody read Ben Lynch's Dirty Genes šŸ˜‚
Posted 10/9/2020 4:41 AM (GMT 0)
Good call, they always say too Georgia Hunter, many viruses are contractible through the eyes...

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/catching-coronavirus-through-your-eyes.html#:~:text=to%20be%20sure%2c%20infectious%20diseases,nose%20into%20another%20person's%20face.

aarp.org said...
To be sure, infectious diseases, in general, can be transmitted through various routes, the eyes included. When a person who is infected coughs, sneezes or talks, the virus can travel in tiny particles from their mouth or nose into another person's face.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200526/can-you-catch-covid19-through-your-eyes

webmd.com said...
Besides looking at the eyes as an entryway, researchers are also exploring whether people with SARS-CoV-2 in their eyes could infect others through their tears or eye secretions.

Post Edited (Charlie55) : 10/8/2020 10:44:06 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/11/2020 7:46 AM (GMT 0)
The VDR and SOD comment is my opinion based on when I used to be a provider for 23andme. Everyone I ever did a consult for that was sick had these mutations. That includes us Lymmies. Our body causes these mutations to occur when we have too much oxidative stress and it just says the heck with fighting, lets try to cope and live together. It also happens as we age so many older people have these mutations.

I've never read Dirty Genes, but I have read a lot of literature about them.

We are getting this virus through our eyes no doubt. Masks in the community setting are basically useless. The physician I consulted on COVID last week agreed with that statement. He actually said it and I agreed with him. The literature supports that comment.

There are three main anti-oxidants in the body. Vitamin C, Glutathione, and superoxide d i s m u t a s e. We can't make Vitamin C so it must be eaten. We Lymmies don't have near enough. What we have goes fast. Glutathione is produced though the transsulfuration pathway but in a case where inflammation causes extra hydrogen ions, (lower pH) the glutathione is oxidized to a non-active form. We Lymmies don't have near enough glutathione. SOD gets down regulated when our oxidative stress levels in the mitochondria get too high and tyrosine nitration causes a change in cellular homeostasis. We Lymmies have this. Chronic Lyme basically causes the same issues as COVID minus the carbonic anhydrase and heme oxygenase issues.
Posted 10/11/2020 1:04 PM (GMT 0)
Interesting about the eyes.

I wouldnā€™t say masks are useless in that regard. Masks should reduce the amount of particles coming out of peopleā€™s mouths, breath, and nose that would land directly in or in the air contacting peopleā€™s eyes.
Posted 10/11/2020 1:21 PM (GMT 0)
WBF, there is some literature supporting that masks can reduce the particulates expelled from someone who has an active viral infection. I won't dispute that, but I will say that this virus is primarily spreading via the air, not as much via droplets. Masks stop droplets, not aerosolized viruses. There is literature showing that constant mask wearing increases respiratory infections compared to people who don't wear masks. When weighing the benefits vs risks of wearing masks, I can not advocate mandating masks. Let the individual decide what they want to do. The literature specifically states that masks can not stop the transmission of a virus. They can slow it down as can social distancing, but at this point with no overrun hospitals, why would that be beneficial in the grand scheme of things. For certain individuals, yes, it may be beneficial, but not as a whole. Let the person decide.

There are reasons I actively work on improving my immune system every day. Keeping me alive in a pandemic is one of them.
Posted 10/11/2020 5:50 PM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...
WBF, there is some literature supporting that masks can reduce the particulates expelled from someone who has an active viral infection. I won't dispute that, but I will say that this virus is primarily spreading via the air, not as much via droplets. Masks stop droplets, not aerosolized viruses. There is literature showing that constant mask wearing increases respiratory infections compared to people who don't wear masks. When weighing the benefits vs risks of wearing masks, I can not advocate mandating masks. Let the individual decide what they want to do. The literature specifically states that masks can not stop the transmission of a virus. They can slow it down as can social distancing, but at this point with no overrun hospitals, why would that be beneficial in the grand scheme of things. For certain individuals, yes, it may be beneficial, but not as a whole. Let the person decide.

There are reasons I actively work on improving my immune system every day. Keeping me alive in a pandemic is one of them.

Hey georgia, interesting observation re: SOD/VDR.

I have the double VDR taq mutation and i recently found out my vit d is low, so that makes sense, beginning to supplement w/ vit D.

But I also have a single mutation (AG) for SOD2 (rs4880) and for SOD3 (rs2855262) I have single mutation (CT). It says in my report that 50% of the population has a single mutation for each of those SOD genes, so does that mean it's nothing to worry about? Also, what can be done about it, is supplementing w/ SOD a good idea?

Post Edited (dcd2103) : 10/11/2020 12:48:01 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 10/12/2020 7:23 AM (GMT 0)
The VDR taq is the one that most adult people have the mutation to. I have an AA which is a homozygous (++) and a CT on VDR Bsm which is heterozygous (+-). We need to be cautious about what most people have as being normal because normal is often not optimal. Just look at Vitamin D levels in adults. Many physicians will say that a Vitamin D level of 20 to 35 ng/ml is normal and a deficiency is less than 12 ng/ml. These numbers are way too low even if they are "normal." Optimal Vitamin D levels are over 65 ng/ml IMO and the cancer benefits start at over 85 ng/ml.

On SOD, I am homozygous (++) on both SOD2's and TT on SOD3. Our cellular environment over time dictates what these genes become and I do not know what we can do to change it. Copper, Zinc, and manganese ratios/levels are very important in determining these genes. The literature on SOD3 states: "Homotetramers consisting of the intact protein, or type C subunit, exhibit high affinity for heparin and are anchored to the ECM. Homotetramers consisting of a proteolytically cleaved form of the protein, or type A subunit, exhibit low affinity for heparin and do not interact with the ECM." What do I have a problem with, pathogens in the ECM (extracellular matrix).

I am unaware that supplementing with SOD will do anything significantly positive. Not saying I wouldn't try it, but I've only read a little about it helping in malaria infections. I've tried some pretty strange things so if I was struggling, I'd probably try it. Studies do show that if you eat high amounts of betacarotene, your SOD activity decreases because betacarotene acts as an anti-oxidant and lesser amounts of SOD are utilized in the cytoplasm.

I use Dr Michael Gregor's Daily Dozen app to track my daily intake of betacarotene and other vital nutrients. IMO from reading much literature, we are greatly undernourished.
Posted 10/12/2020 2:01 PM (GMT 0)
Based on what you said, does this mean it may benefit to eat foods high in beta carotene or to limit foods high in beta carotene?
Posted 10/12/2020 6:08 PM (GMT 0)
We should eat the most healthy foods possible. Beta carotene, sulforaphane, and Vitamin C, should all be ingested from the foods we eat.
Posted 10/13/2020 11:22 PM (GMT 0)
On page 14 of Buhnerā€™s August updated work on COVID-19, he says this about the eyes:

ā€”ā€”ā€”
ā€œOf additional concern, the virus quite often infects the conjunctiva of the eye (conjunctivitis) where it has been found (in one person) to continue to replicate, and be infectious, up to four weeks after the infection was thought to have run its course. (There were no other symptoms, including fever.) This indicates that the virus could use the eye as a possible source to spread further infections. (Rub your eye, touch somone, and on it goes.) And if all this were not enough, a great many people (between thirty and forty percent of those infected) have been found to be asymptomatic for the disease and yet be silent carriers. People have been known to carry and spread the virus for weeks before symptoms arise (if they ever do) and for up to four weeks after infection is thought to have cleared (and perhaps a great deal longer).ā€
Posted 10/14/2020 1:02 PM (GMT 0)
Masks absolutely work. The virus is spread thru droplets that come from your mouth and nose, that is overwhelmingly the main vector. The masks trap droplets and thus prevent spread. Its really that simple. People shouldn't make a complex issue out of a simple concept.

Even if you can get it thru your eyes, your eyes don't expel droplets, so that is a non issue.
Posted 10/15/2020 5:58 AM (GMT 0)
Lapis, I wish that were correct. Influenza is a droplet spread virus and masks are not effective in protecting one from getting it. There is literature stating that wearing a mask can prevent an infected person from spreading as many droplets if they wear a mask. There is actually quite a bit of literature on masks not keeping people from getting infected and even the CDC states to wear a mask "to protect others." I've had multiple physicians tell me that masks provide minimal if any benefit and I was trained in virology just like they were.

SARS-Co2 is spread through aerosolized droplets and is airborne. They have much smaller droplets than influenza and can remain in the air for quite some time. They go through a mask like you aren't even wearing one. The latest CDC information states that one study showed that 70% of people who were COVID positive claimed they "always" wore a mask and ~15% said they "usually" wore a mask. That is 85% that always or usually wore a mask that were still COVID positive. On contrast, less than 5% of COVID positive patients in the study said the "never" wore a mask. Studies show that wearing masks increases your chances of getting a respiratory infection and perhaps this is playing a role, but there is no current literature to confirm that. IMO, the benefits of wearing a mask do not justify their use. That is not a political statement, that is my statement from reading hours upon hours of literature. IMO, they are causing more harm than good.

As for the transmission through the eyes, conjunctivitis is common in COVID patients and most of the super spreader events are at funerals where emotions increase blood flow to the epithelial tissues of the face increasing transmission.
Posted 10/15/2020 2:54 PM (GMT 0)
Georgia Hunter, these are reasons not to wear a mask to protect yourself. But what about for others? Surely if masks prevetn the spread, as you admit, and everyone wears one, it stops spreading?
Posted 10/15/2020 5:04 PM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...


SARS-Co2 is spread through aerosolized droplets and is airborne. They have much smaller droplets than influenza and can remain in the air for quite some time. They go through a mask like you aren't even wearing one.

You are confused. the droplets you exhale remain the same size regardless of what pathogens you may or may not be infected with. they don't get larger or smaller based on what virus you have.

And droplets don't "go through a mask like you aren't even wearing one", that is simply untrue. The masks stop a high percentage of droplets. Not 100%, but enough to cut down on transmission rate considerably.
Posted 10/15/2020 5:13 PM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...
The latest CDC information states that one study showed that 70% of people who were COVID positive claimed they "always" wore a mask and ~15% said they "usually" wore a mask. That is 85% that always or usually wore a mask that were still COVID positive. On contrast, less than 5% of COVID positive patients in the study said the "never" wore a mask. .

Yeah those studies are worthless, everyone lies. "Who me? Oh yeah sure I wear a mask all the time!"

meanwhile go out in public and virtually no one is.
Posted 10/15/2020 8:00 PM (GMT 0)

Georgia Hunter said...
The VDR and SOD comment is my opinion based on when I used to be a provider for 23andme. Everyone I ever did a consult for that was sick had these mutations. That includes us Lymmies. Our body causes these mutations to occur when we have too much oxidative stress and it just says the heck with fighting, lets try to cope and live together. It also happens as we age so many older people have these mutations.

Hi Georgia
the VDR is an area i am interested in as its heavily involved in the innate immune system and its ability to deal with intracellular pathogens.

can I check I understood you correctly?
are you saying people who didn't have these mutations at birth, go on to develop these genetic mutations during their lifetime due to environmental factors that drive oxidative stress?

I only ask as this is a bit of a new concept for me -
I know many cells are being mutated all the time - but i had thought these were a very low percentage of the total - and are cleaned up by the body in fairly short order and so the vast majority of the general population of cells in the body is maintained much as we were born with.

epigenetic changes and various genes being switched on or off all the time in response to the environment are something separate from the above - but that was what I initially thought you were describing. but now it seems not.

could you clarify at all?
Posted 10/15/2020 8:10 PM (GMT 0)
Was curious about this as well Garzie. Iā€™m like 99.99% sure that that is incorrect, your genes donā€™t change over time (outside of epigenetic expression, as was mentioned)
Posted 10/15/2020 10:41 PM (GMT 0)
dcd, the studies I mentioned about slowing the spread were for influenza and it is more droplet oriented. There aren't any good ones on SARS-Co2 and it's aerosolized. With that being said, masks must be changed every 15 minutes or so because they become saturated and even their protection diminishes vastly. I just want people to know there are negatives to wearing masks. Ask any OSHA representative about air quality when wearing a mask.
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