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High C4A and Felt Better on Vacation

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Posted 4/26/2021 7:07 PM (GMT 0)
So quick question - my C4A is high.. 5690 and normal is 0-2830. I've seen a lot of stuff that this usually can indicate chronic Lyme or mold. Which is more likely based on my level? My CRP level is also high.

One other thing that I wanted to mention was that last week I went to Florida for a week vacation. My fiancé and I went to both Disney and Universal and went to both parks two days. We walked a total of 40 miles and other than super sore legs (which is probably normal) I felt pretty great. I didnt feel super crappy, no headaches, no brain fog, no dizziness, or lack of energy. The only lack of energy came later in the week because I was just tired of the parks at that point, but other than that, like I said, I felt pretty good.

Before leaving I was so nervous for this trip because I honestly felt terrible. I had terrible weakness, fatigue, brain fog, etc, even the day we flew out. I seriously contemplated what would happen if I just stayed at our resort and skipped the parks. I did take an immune support supplement called Quick Defense the week before I left to keep me from getting sick and I realized later that it contained Andrographis and I'm wondering if that caused a herx and why I was feeling so terrible right before going?

Anyway, because I was feeling better last week, and now that I'm back, I feel pretty crappy again, I am wondering if all of this could be related to some sort of allergy? Maybe it is mold? I scheduled an appointment with a allergist in my city and they are going to do skin testing on me tomorrow. Is this a good start?
Posted 4/26/2021 7:15 PM (GMT 0)
A full panel of allergy skin prick tests done by an allergist is not a bad idea if insurance covers it.

I seem to recall you had some CIRS labs like the C4a and a urine mycotoxin test that was positive and a Rx for Cholestyramine at some point didn’t you?

Mold illness (CIRS) is not an allergy, but you can have both. The main issue is you have not determined where you’re being exposed - home, work, or both. An ERMI or HERTSMI-2 is both places is the best option you have for figuring that out.
Posted 4/26/2021 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
WBF - I took CSM for around 3 months and felt no improvements on it so I phased it out. Maybe I'll start it back up.. I did to an ERMI at my house and it was negative for all molds. Except a very minor mold that the doctor told me is typical and wouldn't cause any harm or symptoms.

I didn't test work, but I live in a brand new office that was built 7 years ago and is super clean. I would be really surprised if I was exposed to mold here, but I guess it is possible..

Post Edited (NicHostetler) : 4/26/2021 1:35:19 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 4/26/2021 7:30 PM (GMT 0)
I think c4a indicates immune activation (c4 is cleaved into c4a when the complement cascade is activated, so high levels are indicative of a complement mediated inflammatory response), so autoimmune issues like lupus, and CIRS
due to lyme or mold, can do it. I've tried to figure out if specific levels correspond to specific diseases. It sounded like from what I saw, if I remember correctly, one paper suggested higher levels like 8-10k implied mold, and 3-6k was lyme...but i would take that w/ a grain of salt. I wish i could find the paper but it was a while ago. My gut instinct tells me that there's no way to tell simply from the number. It's either elevated or not.

Could it be as simple as your being away from home and out of exposure improved your symptoms? Or else you just felt good being outside on vacation walking around in the sun.
Posted 4/26/2021 7:39 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, I found that paper that you are referring to..

https://richmondfunctionalmedicine.com/mold-related-biotoxin-illness-part3/

Normal Range: 0-2830 ng/ml
Range Interpretations: >20,000 is severe biotoxin illness and exquisite mVOC sensitivities
6000-8000 can be seen in Lyme, Mold can be 12,000 and above. Acute Lyme=17,000, Chronic Lyme=8872, Acute Mold=16,000, Chronic Mold=12,000, CFS=9000, Re-exposure=19,000 said...

I actually thought about that as well.. maybe just getting up and exercising right away help clear everything up? Since I was forced to do it, I didn't have time to dwell on how I felt, I just got up and went and felt better..? I'm not sure.. it's so hard to tell..
Posted 4/26/2021 7:55 PM (GMT 0)

NicHostetler said...
Yes, I found that paper that you are referring to..

https://richmondfunctionalmedicine.com/mold-related-biotoxin-illness-part3/

Normal Range: 0-2830 ng/ml
Range Interpretations: >20,000 is severe biotoxin illness and exquisite mVOC sensitivities
6000-8000 can be seen in Lyme, Mold can be 12,000 and above. Acute Lyme=17,000, Chronic Lyme=8872, Acute Mold=16,000, Chronic Mold=12,000, CFS=9000, Re-exposure=19,000 said...

I actually thought about that as well.. maybe just getting up and exercising right away help clear everything up? Since I was forced to do it, I didn't have time to dwell on how I felt, I just got up and went and felt better..? I'm not sure.. it's so hard to tell..

I was way off that chart for a while with C4a at 55,000 (yep!), about 5-6 years ago.

Read after that that those levels reflect a re-exposure to a Zombie bite. First exposure is only around 20,000 to 30,000.

Seriously though, I had bad internal Candida (blood tested pos) at the time. Took Duflican (again) and C4a when to 1,400 in three months. I also went 90% gluten free then (was not yet 100% GF).
Posted 4/26/2021 8:03 PM (GMT 0)
Astroman- very interesting that you had Candida because I actually had high candida as well when those blood results were taken. I have taken Diflucan now one week out of every month for the past 2 months. Getting ready to start the 3rd month now. How long did it take for you to clear everything up?
Posted 4/26/2021 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
Nic,

You did an ERMI test at home and there was only one mold? Was this through Mycometrics lab? Did you do the dust cloth method? Where did you take the dust samples from?

I really would like to know. It’s hard for me to imagine a place that literally has no mold. If this place is that clean, I wonder why you felt better away and worse when you came back again.

Did you feel worse right after coming home and before going back to work or after you went back to work?
Posted 4/26/2021 8:41 PM (GMT 0)

NicHostetler said...
Astroman- very interesting that you had Candida because I actually had high candida as well when those blood results were taken. I have taken Diflucan now one week out of every month for the past 2 months. Getting ready to start the 3rd month now. How long did it take for you to clear everything up?

I was on Diflucan everyday for two months straight. Dr new I had a history of it so he did not treat it lightly. I think my C4a tests were three months apart back then.

That was with Quest, and they eventually dropped that test as also noted by others here back then. Had something to do with their dropping the packing procedure specifically for that test as they sent it out to.... I think NJL (below).

One more time after that time frame, and I had a hospital draw it and send it packed correctly, directly to ...........National Jewish Labs (?). I was still in normal range.

Yeast is similar to mold, but seldom mentioned in C4a results. Cant be ignored....but it is to some extent.
Posted 4/28/2021 9:13 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe because it's because you are really allergic to the pollen wherever you live? The pollen has been really bad in the Northeast lately.

I had the same thing happen to me. I was feeling really horrible (I felt like I had a stomach bug), but I went on a two-day trip, that I had been planning for. I felt totally fine during the trip, but 3 days after I came back, I started feeling really crummy. Weird rashes, headache, mood changes, fatigue, etc.
Posted 4/28/2021 9:15 PM (GMT 0)
Maybe because it's because you are really allergic to the pollen wherever you live? The pollen has been really bad in the Northeast lately.

I had the same thing happen to me. I was feeling really horrible (I felt like I had a stomach bug), but I went on a two-day trip, that I had been planning for. I felt totally fine during the trip, but 3 days after I came back, I started feeling really crummy. Weird rashes, headache, mood changes, fatigue, etc.
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