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Posted 6/4/2021 7:50 PM (GMT 0)
I have bartonella. I am taking DesBios for it. The fatigue I have is mainly gone. The joint pain is mainly gone. The insomnia has gotten better. But the one thing I have not been able to shake is itching/ burning eyes. Almost like allergies that are irritated when the pollen count is high. It comes and goes...but it is mostly here. I used to notice it a lot when I ate sugar. Also, my head seems to pound when I bend all the way over to pick something up. It was really bad at first.. the feeling of all the blood rushing to the top of my head when bending over....or the feeling of pain/head swelling when I coughed or sneezed....it has lessened, but still there. The ironic thing is....my heart used to get the same sensation when coughing or sneezing. Like my chest would tighten. That is gone now, but has seemed to move to my head/brain. Anyone else experienced this.
Posted 6/4/2021 8:05 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Bailey šŸ™‹ā€ā™€ļø! šŸ˜¬ I have similar sensations in my head, especially since hurricane sandy when I acquired mal de debarquement syndrome. Havenā€™t gotten over it and he only thing that generally helps is treatment of my infections, especially bartonella... sorry not much help.
Posted 6/4/2021 9:06 PM (GMT 0)
Hurricanes (and other intense barometric pressure events) really flare MDDS and dysautonomia for me, so it's interesting to her that you trace your first incidence of MDDS back to a hurricane, Bailey.

Bbailey423, I had the most intense and terrifying vertigo from the DesBio Bartonella series kit. Even at half-doses, I had to discontinue it. I'm glad to hear that the DesBio kit is helping you! It's definitely a serious treatment. My guess would be that inflammation from die-off is what's causing the symptoms you described, unless you have had them the whole time.
Posted 6/4/2021 9:36 PM (GMT 0)
Oh my gosh you have issues with hurricanes too!? My llmd told me there were others but most people just look at me weird (especially most medical pros) when I say mine was triggered by hurricane sandy. I downloaded this weather app that graphs past and fleck red air pressure and it is sometimes eerie how many time I can correlate a sudden drop in health to barometric pressure events (usually drops).
Posted 6/4/2021 10:11 PM (GMT 0)

saraeli said...
Hurricanes (and other intense barometric pressure events) really flare MDDS and dysautonomia for me, so it's interesting to her that you trace your first incidence of MDDS back to a hurricane, Bailey.

Bbailey423, I had the most intense and terrifying vertigo from the DesBio Bartonella series kit. Even at half-doses, I had to discontinue it. I'm glad to hear that the DesBio kit is helping you! It's definitely a serious treatment. My guess would be that inflammation from die-off is what's causing the symptoms you described, unless you have had them the whole time.


So I just finished the first box. I had "vertigo" like symptoms prior to that...but none since I started. It was scary at first...I felt like I was falling forward or tipping over....or felt like the room was tilting...had trouble laying flat...had to lay elevated when I slept. But I took the first box at half-doses and have not had any issues. They want me to take a second box(series) ingesting the vials in descending order now. I read the herxes were bad on this...and my LLMD warned they were bad on this...but I did not have a bad herx. Could this mean most have died off? That is the thing with these treatments....how do we know when to stop taking them. If it is in remission...I don't want to keep taking this stuff. It is costly and insurance does not cover it. And I am starting to wonder if I am making myself worse by constantly taking "stuff"

I have recently started taking the AIM Garden Trio...and that stuff is awesome. Also taking Kyrolic AGE 103...which is Aged Garlic Extract to boost the immune system. Have definitely noticed the boost of energy the Garden Trio provides.

But like I said...if I am not herxing really bad...is it possible its in remission?
Posted 6/5/2021 1:57 AM (GMT 0)
Quercertin works well for the eye itching I use now brands
Posted 6/5/2021 2:40 AM (GMT 0)
Please don't stop the kit after the first box- there are 4 different levels (kits) that are meant to challenge your immune system, bringing out the infection from deeper levels as time goes on. I have heard of people stopping after doing ascending and descending (first two boxes) but it is recommended to do all 4 to achieve a lasting response.

People herx at different times on series therapy. I herxed horribly on vial 2-4. Some don't herx at all until they get to the third box.
Posted 6/5/2021 9:21 AM (GMT 0)

Donjr said...
Quercertin works well for the eye itching I use now brands


Is this something I take for life?
Is it used to "manage" symptoms or "cure"?
Was this recommended by an eye doctor or a LLMD?
How much should I take?
Posted 6/5/2021 9:41 AM (GMT 0)

Bufflehead said...
Please don't stop the kit after the first box- there are 4 different levels (kits) that are meant to challenge your immune system, bringing out the infection from deeper levels as time goes on. I have heard of people stopping after doing ascending and descending (first two boxes) but it is recommended to do all 4 to achieve a lasting response.

People herx at different times on series therapy. I herxed horribly on vial 2-4. Some don't herx at all until they get to the third box.


Thanks for chiming in. So you feel as if I definitely need to keep going if it is not making me herx? The reason being it is probably embedded deeply? Ok...I buy that! At some point though, should I be re-tested?
The reason I am asking is because my LLMD had me purchase box 1. Taking it in half doses in ascending order. They never told me about box 2- 4. So I called to ask about "next steps", because I see that the DesBios website lists all of the additional boxes. So when I approached my LLMD about it, she charged my $120 to tell me to move forward with box #2...taking it in descending order. Never re-checked my blood etc...just informed me via email to start on box 2. Your post was the first time I had heard of box 3 and 4...and I confirmed it on the DesBios website. I like my LLMD and I appreciate she is providing me with help my GP cannot provide. In fact, after a couple of rounds of antibotics...my GP is telling me I do not have Lyme anymore, but I was still having symptoms...so I ditched him (at the advice of many people with Lyme)...and found this LLMD. But I don't think my LLMD should charge me just to tell me to "go to step 2". Am I wrong for feeling this way? Did you do the DesBios protocol? If not, can you put me in touch with someone who has?
Posted 6/5/2021 12:21 PM (GMT 0)

Bailey said...
Hi Bailey šŸ™‹ā€ā™€ļø! šŸ˜¬ I have similar sensations in my head, especially since hurricane sandy when I acquired mal de debarquement syndrome. Havenā€™t gotten over it and he only thing that generally helps is treatment of my infections, especially bartonella... sorry not much help.

Since Hurricane Sandy????

Was your house/apartment affected by the hurricane?

Balance problems are a huge mold symptom.

Even if you didnā€™t have flooding in the house, pounding rain can get into walls around windows and cause hidden mold. Was the roof damaged? Does the house have a crawlspace?
Posted 6/5/2021 1:12 PM (GMT 0)
I definitely understand the disenchantment with providers who don't tell you the full picture of what the plan is. Not all LLMDs are created equal, and I definitely have encountered plenty of people who are out to profit from the chronically ill and benefit from the controversial, highly individualized nature of tick-borne diseases.

I have not heard of boxes 3 and 4, either, which seems odd if the website discusses them! The provider who recommended DesBio for me trained with DesBio and told me that boxes one (ascending) and two (descending) were standard. She also recommended the DesBio homochord as well as the detox kit. As I mentioned, I had a terrible reaction to vial 3 (constant vertigo, ER for encephalitis) so did not continue. My provider had many patients taking these kits without that reaction, and took them herself.

Quercetin (which Donjr recommended for eye issues) is a mast cell stabilizer and antioxidant. People take it for allergies typically, and LLMDs tend to recommend it for people having issues with mast cell activation, histamine intolerance, allergies, and immune dysfunction. If mast cells are responsible for your eye symptoms, then quercetin could help. If whatever is triggering the symptom never gets cured (like if you're being exposed to mold and never remediate) then you'd need it for life, but of course since you are working hard on your health I'd assume it will go away eventually! smile

In terms of whether quercetin is a cure or management, it's sort of both, and depends on what the cause of your eye issues is. If you have issues with mast cells, then there's a feedback loop that can be tough to get out of. Some people have major mast cell activation flares brought on by a significant insult to the system, which can include infections. My friend had a major flare after getting poison ivy. Once someone is in a very triggered state, it can be hard to normalize because every little thing triggers an overreaction. In that scenario, quercetin can help break the cycle. If you're being exposed to ongoing triggers (allergens or environmental irritants, for example) then quercetin would be for symptom management.

If your eye problems are from inflammation of part of the eye itself or misfiring nerves or adrenal issues, then quercetin probably won't help as much.

Bailey, barometric pressure illness absolutely is a thing! Usually sudden drops are the culprit. A lot of people with migraines especially get them in response to weather changes. You know how when you go up in a plane, a plastic water bottle gets visibly compressed? These changes are physiological. My blood pressure goes down, leading to POTS flares, and various other issues. Some people ward this off with ice on their heads plus simultaneous heat on their mid-backs. I have evaded the effect with extra hydration, magnesium, B2, and essential oils of frankincense and peppermint, but it doesn't work every time. Some people find EarPlanes effective. I really wish there were more research available to help those of us who are sensitive to these things!
Posted 6/5/2021 1:31 PM (GMT 0)

WalkingbyFaith said...


Since Hurricane Sandy????

Was your house/apartment affected by the hurricane?

Balance problems are a huge mold symptom.

Even if you didnā€™t have flooding in the house, pounding rain can get into walls around windows and cause hidden mold. Was the roof damaged? Does the house have a crawlspace?

I did order a real time mold toxin test. Havenā€™t done it yet since itā€™s still in COVID quarantine. We didnā€™t have water damage that Iā€™m aware of. And it wasnā€™t like a couple days or weeks after hurricane sandy, it was like the hurricane was here and immediately as it left snd the pressure changed, there was complete health disaster. Ever since when barometric pressure changes i risk a similar state. To be fair I was on levaquin at the time and it put me in this weird dizzy state when I took it but also seemed to make me mobile for the first time in forever. But then itā€™s like the dizziness went nuts, I was like almost catatonic had severe mdds, lost feeling in my extremities and was too fatigued to chew food my mom put in my mouth. Eventually what got me out of it was res using all my abx, especially mycobutin.
Posted 6/5/2021 9:42 PM (GMT 0)

bbailey423 said...
Thanks for chiming in. So you feel as if I definitely need to keep going if it is not making me herx? The reason being it is probably embedded deeply? Ok...I buy that! At some point though, should I be re-tested?
The reason I am asking is because my LLMD had me purchase box 1. Taking it in half doses in ascending order. They never told me about box 2- 4. So I called to ask about "next steps", because I see that the DesBios website lists all of the additional boxes. So when I approached my LLMD about it, she charged my $120 to tell me to move forward with box #2...taking it in descending order. Never re-checked my blood etc...just informed me via email to start on box 2. Your post was the first time I had heard of box 3 and 4...and I confirmed it on the DesBios website. I like my LLMD and I appreciate she is providing me with help my GP cannot provide. In fact, after a couple of rounds of antibotics...my GP is telling me I do not have Lyme anymore, but I was still having symptoms...so I ditched him (at the advice of many people with Lyme)...and found this LLMD. But I don't think my LLMD should charge me just to tell me to "go to step 2". Am I wrong for feeling this way? Did you do the DesBios protocol? If not, can you put me in touch with someone who has?

I am currently on the Desbio protocol for borrelia/babesia! If you have facebook, join the "Desbio Treatment Group." It's a very active group with many people who are currently treating and many who have had success on these protocols.

Based on other people's experiences when starting Desbio, there are a LOT of practitioners out there who have no idea how to prescribe it...You really want a practitioner who is skilled/experienced in homeopathy, which is very nuanced, and lots of docs out there don't have that training. Also, the treatment isn't for everyone and it can be very intense if you aren't properly prepared or ready for it.

I was told upfront to be prepared to do 4 boxes, along with some homeopathic/herbal support also from Desbio. Per Desbio, series therapy should always be done with a comprehensive detox kit, (if you are very toxic your doc might have you do the whole detox kit before even beginning series therapy, or even add in some drainage tinctures to make sure you can detox properly) liposomal vitamin C to boost the immune system, and smart silver to help with microbe killing and also for immunity/binding properties. That's the core protocol. Then depending on your individual case, your practitioner might throw in a couple supportive tinctures that will make the process more effective for you.

The fact that you are not herxing yet is not abnormal at all, because you are still very early in the process and may or may not be using the whole kit (which makes the nosodes most effective.) Also, you mentioned treating with antibiotics in the past. There is some anecdotal evidence that if you have taken long-term antibiotics, series therapy may take a little longer to work. At least this is true for borrelia because some abx tend to push lyme to morph into cyst form, which can be harder to provoke (not sure if this would apply for bartonella.)

You really do want to be herxing on this, I know that sounds funny to say. And I have had some suuuuper intense herxes in the first half of my first kit. If I didn't have a good practitioner who told me what to expect and why, I probably would have quit it was so bad. But after every major herx, my symptoms improved. I really had to put a lot of faith into this process. I'm still early on in treatment too (almost done w/ second box) but I've seen so much improvement that I never thought would be possible in such a short amount of time, so I am really excited about this. I wish you the best with treatment and if you have any questions, I would be happy to help.
Posted 6/5/2021 11:51 PM (GMT 0)

Bufflehead said...

bbailey423 said...
Thanks for chiming in. So you feel as if I definitely need to keep going if it is not making me herx? The reason being it is probably embedded deeply? Ok...I buy that! At some point though, should I be re-tested?
The reason I am asking is because my LLMD had me purchase box 1. Taking it in half doses in ascending order. They never told me about box 2- 4. So I called to ask about "next steps", because I see that the DesBios website lists all of the additional boxes. So when I approached my LLMD about it, she charged my $120 to tell me to move forward with box #2...taking it in descending order. Never re-checked my blood etc...just informed me via email to start on box 2. Your post was the first time I had heard of box 3 and 4...and I confirmed it on the DesBios website. I like my LLMD and I appreciate she is providing me with help my GP cannot provide. In fact, after a couple of rounds of antibotics...my GP is telling me I do not have Lyme anymore, but I was still having symptoms...so I ditched him (at the advice of many people with Lyme)...and found this LLMD. But I don't think my LLMD should charge me just to tell me to "go to step 2". Am I wrong for feeling this way? Did you do the DesBios protocol? If not, can you put me in touch with someone who has?

I am currently on the Desbio protocol for borrelia/babesia! If you have facebook, join the "Desbio Treatment Group." It's a very active group with many people who are currently treating and many who have had success on these protocols.

Based on other people's experiences when starting Desbio, there are a LOT of practitioners out there who have no idea how to prescribe it...You really want a practitioner who is skilled/experienced in homeopathy, which is very nuanced, and lots of docs out there don't have that training. Also, the treatment isn't for everyone and it can be very intense if you aren't properly prepared or ready for it.

I was told upfront to be prepared to do 4 boxes, along with some homeopathic/herbal support also from Desbio. Per Desbio, series therapy should always be done with a comprehensive detox kit, (if you are very toxic your doc might have you do the whole detox kit before even beginning series therapy, or even add in some drainage tinctures to make sure you can detox properly) liposomal vitamin C to boost the immune system, and smart silver to help with microbe killing and also for immunity/binding properties. That's the core protocol. Then depending on your individual case, your practitioner might throw in a couple supportive tinctures that will make the process more effective for you.

The fact that you are not herxing yet is not abnormal at all, because you are still very early in the process and may or may not be using the whole kit (which makes the nosodes most effective.) Also, you mentioned treating with antibiotics in the past. There is some anecdotal evidence that if you have taken long-term antibiotics, series therapy may take a little longer to work. At least this is true for borrelia because some abx tend to push lyme to morph into cyst form, which can be harder to provoke (not sure if this would apply for bartonella.)

You really do want to be herxing on this, I know that sounds funny to say. And I have had some suuuuper intense herxes in the first half of my first kit. If I didn't have a good practitioner who told me what to expect and why, I probably would have quit it was so bad. But after every major herx, my symptoms improved. I really had to put a lot of faith into this process. I'm still early on in treatment too (almost done w/ second box) but I've seen so much improvement that I never thought would be possible in such a short amount of time, so I am really excited about this. I wish you the best with treatment and if you have any questions, I would be happy to help.

So I have had bad herxes before. I was taken a blend of essential oils. I never herxed on antibiotics. I only took 3 rounds of antibiotics....3 weeks at a time. But what happened to me on the essential oils sent me to the emergency room...because I was not sure what was happening. I was at the gym lifting weights...doing bench press....and the whole gym seemed like it flipped upside down. Then I started sweating profusely. My wife got me to the emergency room...they had NO idea what was wrong with me. They ran several tests...all they could come up with was that my potassium was low. I was dry heaving. I would feel like I had to throw up...or use the bathroom...but nothing would come out. And then out of nowhere...after about 2 hours...it was all over. I walked out of the hospital like nothing every happened. It was only after I got home and did some research that I discovered I had a herx reaction. The other time I herxed bad was when I took colidal silver via IV for about 6 weeks. Since I knew what was happening, I did not go to the emergency room. But it knocked me down for 2 days. So since I am done with the first box of Desbios...and I am doing things to detox (drinking AIM garden trio a couple of times a day, taking AGE 103, drinking ACV/Cayenne Pepper/Lemon/Honey mix) I would think I would be herxing by now, since I am not...that is why I am wondering out loud if I am in remission. But I will do all 4 boxes since that seems to be the normal protocol and be on the look out for the herx! But I would love to trade stories with anyone that is doing the DesBios plan.
Posted 7/30/2021 9:44 AM (GMT 0)
I am currently on the Desbio protocol for borrelia/babesia! If you have facebook, join the "Desbio Treatment Group." It's a very active group with many people who are currently treating and many who have had success on these protocols.

Based on other people's experiences when starting Desbio, there are a LOT of practitioners out there who have no idea how to prescribe it...You really want a practitioner who is skilled/experienced in homeopathy, which is very nuanced, and lots of docs out there don't have that training. Also, the treatment isn't for everyone and it can be very intense if you aren't properly prepared or ready for it.

I was told upfront to be prepared to do 4 boxes, along with some homeopathic/herbal support also from Desbio. Per Desbio, series therapy should always be done with a comprehensive detox kit, (if you are very toxic your doc might have you do the whole detox kit before even beginning series therapy, or even add in some drainage tinctures to make sure you can detox properly) liposomal vitamin C to boost the immune system, and smart silver to help with microbe killing and also for immunity/binding properties. That's the core protocol. Then depending on your individual case, your practitioner might throw in a couple supportive tinctures that will make the process more effective for you.

The fact that you are not herxing yet is not abnormal at all, because you are still very early in the process and may or may not be using the whole kit (which makes the nosodes most effective.) Also, you mentioned treating with antibiotics in the past. There is some anecdotal evidence that if you have taken long-term antibiotics, series therapy may take a little longer to work. At least this is true for borrelia because some abx tend to push lyme to morph into cyst form, which can be harder to provoke (not sure if this would apply for bartonella.)

You really do want to be herxing on this, I know that sounds funny to say. And I have had some suuuuper intense herxes in the first half of my first kit. If I didn't have a good practitioner who told me what to expect and why, I probably would have quit it was so bad. But after every major herx, my symptoms improved. I really had to put a lot of faith into this process. I'm still early on in treatment too (almost done w/ second box) but I've seen so much improvement that I never thought would be possible in such a short amount of time, so I am really excited about this. I wish you the best with treatment and if you have any questions, I would be happy to help.


Bufflehead....god morning. I am down to the last vial on Box 2. Still no "major" herx. Like I said...I have had a major herx before...so I know what it feels like. I have been to the emergency room (because at the time I did not know what herxing was AND they had no clue what was wrong with me...it just went away after about 2 hours of hell)....the next time I had a major herx I knew what was happening, so I rode it out (basiclly bedridden for 2 days)....but no major herxes since then. So I guess I will go to box 3 of DesBios. How are you doing with it?

Like I said, I am doing AIM barley life, AIM just carrots, and AIM Redibeets. It leaves me feeling amazing. I am also doing AIM Coco Leaf Greens...again amazing. I am also taking Aged Garlic Extract Tablets...in addition to giving up meat and incorporating intermittent fasting. When doing so many things, it's hard to tell which one is making you feel great...but it could be all?
Posted 7/31/2021 3:56 AM (GMT 0)
For those doing Desbios, some other folks did it last year. Hereā€™s an old post on it.

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=4176199
Posted 8/1/2021 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
Bilberry, lutein, Zinc, Vitamin C and Schisandra Chinesis are supportive. Also Stephania should help directly with eye issues, but you should take a lot of Vitamin C to go along with it because it's known to cause constipation. I have successfully treated my eye issues using bilberry, lutein, zinc and vitamin c but it takes a long time (6 months).

Chlorella and Zeolite liquid also help.

Buhner also recommends a stephania eyewash but I have no idea how to do that and the idea scares me lol.
Posted 8/2/2021 2:57 PM (GMT 0)

bbailey423 said...
I have bartonella. I am taking DesBios for it. The fatigue I have is mainly gone. The joint pain is mainly gone. The insomnia has gotten better. But the one thing I have not been able to shake is itching/ burning eyes. Almost like allergies that are irritated when the pollen count is high. It comes and goes...but it is mostly here. I used to notice it a lot when I ate sugar. Also, my head seems to pound when I bend all the way over to pick something up. It was really bad at first.. the feeling of all the blood rushing to the top of my head when bending over....or the feeling of pain/head swelling when I coughed or sneezed....it has lessened, but still there. The ironic thing is....my heart used to get the same sensation when coughing or sneezing. Like my chest would tighten. That is gone now, but has seemed to move to my head/brain. Anyone else experienced this.

I too have the same exact symptoms and i agree with Bailey, the only thing that worked is treatment abx plus herbals like japanese knotweed. and sida acuta which I had to stop it was too strong for me and I couldnt tolerate it. Since I stopped babesia abx the head fullness and dizziness came bk also burning sensations. Clindamycin took my POTS away and that feeling when u bend down with all the blood rushing to your head.
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