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Posted 5/14/2021 1:30 PM (GMT 0)
I’m currently taking Houttuynia as part of my protocol but heard that fresh leaf Houttuynia is the most potent. As I am from the UK it is pretty much impossible to source the fresh leaf kind but I am still having great success with the regular tincture houttuynia at 30 drops 2x a day. Is there really that big a difference? Should I maybe double the dosage to 60 drops 2 x daily?

Thanks
Posted 5/14/2021 1:56 PM (GMT 0)
i had exactly these thoughts after reading Buhner's books and that he favours fresh Houttuynia

so i initially doubled the target dose because i was using dried leaf powder - but i had huge herx effects from doing so

when i looked into it a bit more - i found that the amount that caused me to herx was a similar proportion of buhners recommended max dose as for many of his other anti-microbial herbs.

so i took this as evidence that the dried houttuynia leaf tincture was as potent as expected for the fresh leaf - at least in my case.

buy the way - i am buying the powdered leaf from LymeHerb.eu and making my own tinctures - at 1:5 50% and am happy with the quality there vs other sources i have tried.

has taken me a long time to get to max dose - around 18months - but i have ben gradually improving in that time.
Posted 5/14/2021 2:17 PM (GMT 0)

Garzie said...
i had exactly these thoughts after reading Buhner's books and that he favours fresh Houttuynia

so i initially doubled the target dose because i was using dried leaf powder - but i had huge herx effects from doing so

when i looked into it a bit more - i found that the amount that caused me to herx was a similar proportion of buhners recommended max dose as for many of his other anti-microbial herbs.

so i took this as evidence that the dried houttuynia leaf tincture was as potent as expected for the fresh leaf - at least in my case.

buy the way - i am buying the powdered leaf from LymeHerb.eu and making my own tinctures - at 1:5 50% and am happy with the quality there vs other sources i have tried.

has taken me a long time to get to max dose - around 18months - but i have ben gradually improving in that time.

Thanks for the reply Garzie!

Ah okay, that’s good to know. I’m seeing good success with the dry leaf tinctured form of Houttuynia from a place called Napiers in Scotland. I always have moments of worry when I read people saying you MUST take fresh leaf over dried.

I have a full bottle of Houttuynia left and MIGHT switch over to the powdered form just to see if there’s any difference. I’ve heard it’s much cheaper making your own tinctured so might look into this.
Posted 5/14/2021 5:46 PM (GMT 0)
I've taken both dry and fresh leaf Houttuynia and can say there is a huge difference! The fresh leaf was way more potent and powerful to me. For me it was a good herx, pain in my head but wasn't really painful. It's hard to explain but it was a good kind of pain.
Posted 5/14/2021 5:54 PM (GMT 0)

allen1989 said...
I’m currently taking Houttuynia as part of my protocol but heard that fresh leaf Houttuynia is the most potent. As I am from the UK it is pretty much impossible to source the fresh leaf kind but I am still having great success with the regular tincture houttuynia at 30 drops 2x a day. Is there really that big a difference? Should I maybe double the dosage to 60 drops 2 x daily?

Thanks

I believe Woodland Essence is still fresh leaf -

Here’s what their website says about shipping

“ Where do we ship internationally?

We can ship just about everywhere in the world, but we currently cannot ship to SPAIN, PORTUGAL, BRAZIL, SOUTH AFRICA, GERMANY, JAPAN, KOREA and DUBAI. These countries will not allow the items into the country and the items will either be sent back or thrown out. So we will refund all orders that will be shipped to these countries. ENGLAND is currently allowing some packages through, but not all. Make sure you continue to read about our international shipping policies.“
Posted 5/14/2021 7:38 PM (GMT 0)

allen1989 said...


Thanks for the reply Garzie!

Ah okay, that’s good to know. I’m seeing good success with the dry leaf tinctured form of Houttuynia from a place called Napiers in Scotland. I always have moments of worry when I read people saying you MUST take fresh leaf over dried.

I have a full bottle of Houttuynia left and MIGHT switch over to the powdered form just to see if there’s any difference. I’ve heard it’s much cheaper making your own tinctured so might look into this.

Yep, Napiers seem OK
making your own is much cheaper though and you can select where you get the herbs from - and see and smell the herbs quality when you buy them.

alcohol is the awkward bit in the UK - its difficult to get 50% or more concentration - and the price is very high if you have to pay duty.

however i found there is a medical exception licence available from HM Customs and Excise that allows duty free purchase of 96% pure alcohol for making herbal tinctures. i think it assumes you will be doing so as a business - but there is no requirement to do so.
this means i can make high alcohol content tinctures very cost effectively

to give you an idea - 500ml of 1:5 houttuynia tincture costs me around £6 to make including the herb and the alcohol.

some people just eat the powder - others use it as a tea - but i now prefer tinctures and believe they are more effective as the alcohol acts as a good solvent to extract active components that i don't think our digestive system would very well. often the dose for tincture vs powdered herb is much lower for this reason.
Posted 5/14/2021 8:24 PM (GMT 0)

Rhytenow said...
I've taken both dry and fresh leaf Houttuynia and can say there is a huge difference! The fresh leaf was way more potent and powerful to me. For me it was a good herx, pain in my head but wasn't really painful. It's hard to explain but it was a good kind of pain.

Okay that’s interesting! I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a herx, I can literally start at full dose on anything, abx or herbs, and don’t get the herx. If I can source some I might give it a try.
Posted 5/14/2021 8:27 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

allen1989 said...
I’m currently taking Houttuynia as part of my protocol but heard that fresh leaf Houttuynia is the most potent. As I am from the UK it is pretty much impossible to source the fresh leaf kind but I am still having great success with the regular tincture houttuynia at 30 drops 2x a day. Is there really that big a difference? Should I maybe double the dosage to 60 drops 2 x daily?

Thanks

I believe Woodland Essence is still fresh leaf -

Here’s what their website says about shipping

“ Where do we ship internationally?

We can ship just about everywhere in the world, but we currently cannot ship to SPAIN, PORTUGAL, BRAZIL, SOUTH AFRICA, GERMANY, JAPAN, KOREA and DUBAI. These countries will not allow the items into the country and the items will either be sent back or thrown out. So we will refund all orders that will be shipped to these countries. ENGLAND is currently allowing some packages through, but not all. Make sure you continue to read about our international shipping policies.“

Thanks Girlie!

I looked on Woodland Essence earlier today and went to order some but couldn’t as England wasn’t available to select. I’m guessing Brexit or COVID are behind that, I’ll keep checking though!
Posted 5/14/2021 8:44 PM (GMT 0)
Ill just add that the dried bag of HH I made tea out of had a pretty hard herx hit, 1 week after initial start date. Others reported the same back then, was used here that way often.
Posted 7/5/2021 5:45 PM (GMT 0)
Here’s an older thread on making tinctures

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3675422
Posted 7/5/2021 6:19 PM (GMT 0)

Cignet said...
Garzie, where is it that you're getting the alcohol for these tinctures and how did you find this out? I am just wondering. I had been using Balkans 88% alcohol for my tinctures but if this is a feasible route I'd like to try it too.

hi Cignet

are you in the UK also ?

i initially used similar polish vodka as the serbian one you mention - but it was still v expensive because of the duty on alcohol in the UK - which is around 5x the cost of the alcohol itself

so i applied for and obtained a duty free alcohol licence - under the provisions of duty free alcohol use for making medicinal products ( which includes herbal medicines)

the legislation appears to be written with the assumption that a person would be doing so as a business - but the legality does not appear to depend on that.

this licence allows me to buy a prescribed quantity of 96% pure alcohol ( i use organic grain alcohol) from wholesale suppliers in 25litre lots at around £5-6 per litre ( 5 litre sizes were about 4x as expensive for some reason)

there are some secure storage and record keeping requirements - but nothing too onerous

more information on how to apply here
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/excise-notice-47-duty-free-spirits-use-in-manufacture-or-for-medical-or-scientific-purposes/excise-notice-47-duty-free-spirits-use-in-manufacture-or-for-medical-or-scientific-purposes

let me know if i can help in any way
Posted 7/5/2021 10:17 PM (GMT 0)
So is there any chance the tincture will work? I ordered a bottle from Woodland Essence a couple of weeks ago and started slowly, then stopped in case of bad herx. I had a sound and announcing job for a large fireworks show last night and didn't want to take the chance I wouldn't be able to do it.

Am going to start back to see if I react to a higher dose to find out if Bart is in play.
Posted 7/6/2021 9:37 AM (GMT 0)
Houttuynia isn't only effective against bartonella. It exhibits strong antimicrobial activity against many gram-negative bacteria. It also has anti-cancer, anti-obesity, hepatoprotective, anti-viral, anti-inflammatory, free radical scavenging, anti-allergic, anti-leukemic and other properties.
Posted 7/6/2021 12:05 PM (GMT 0)
Any chance it helps with babesia too? I was checking the internet but it doesn’t look it....
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