HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Igenex results...thoughts?

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 8/5/2021 2:41 AM (GMT 0)
B. burgdorferi IFA - G/M/A Serum >80

Lyme ImmunoBlot IgM Serum
IGX Criteria: Positive
CDC/NYS Criteria: Negative
***
93
++
41*
IND
39*
-
34*
-
31*
+
23*
+++

Lyme ImmunoBlot IgG Serum
IGX Criteria: Negative
CDC/NYS Criteria: Negative

23*
IND
30
++
41*
IND

LYME IMMUNOBLOT IGM SPECIATION
B. burgdorferi US(genus) Serum Positive
B. burgdorferi US Spp Serum Negative
B. burgdorferi European(genus) Serum Positive
B. burgdorferi European Spp Serum Negative
Borrelia burgdorferi European species include but not limited to B.
afzelii, B. garinii, B. spielmanii and B. valaisiana.
B. burgdorferi Species Serum Positive
B. burgdorferi species include but not limited to Bb B31, Bb 297, B.
mayonii, B. californiensis, B. afzelii, B. garinii, B. spielmanii and
B. valaisiana.
LYME IMMUNOBLOT IGG SPECIATION
B. burgdorferi US(genus) Serum Negative
B. burgdorferi US spp Serum Negative
BbSs: Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto includes but not limited to
B. burgdorferi B31 and B. burgdorferi 297.
BbSl: Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato includes but not limited to B.
mayonii and B. californiensis.
B. burgdorferi European(genus) Serum Negative
B. burgdorferi European Spp Serum Negative
Borrelia burgdorferi European species include but not limited to B.
afzelii, B. garinii, B. spielmanii and B. valaisiana.
B. burgdorferi Species Serum Negative
B. burgdorferi species include but not limited to Bb B31, Bb 297, B.
mayonii, B. californiensis, B. afzelii, B. garinii, B. spielmanii and
B. valaisiana.

TBRF Borrelia ImmunoBlot IgM
TBRF Borrelia genus ImmunoBlot IgMSerum Pos(TBRF) Positive: Detected 2 or more TBRF Borrelia
TBRF Borrelia ImmunoBlot IgM Species
B. miyamotoi Serum Negative
B. hermsii Serum Negative
B. turicatae Serum Negative
TBRF Borrelia spp Serum Positive
TBRF Borrelia ImmunoBlot IgG Species
B. miyamotoi Serum IND
B. hermsii Serum Negative
B. turicatae Serum Negative
TBRF Borrelia spp Serum Negative

Can someone break this down for me?

Thanks!
Posted 8/5/2021 7:33 AM (GMT 0)
Your Immunoblot ;
“ Lyme ImmunoBlot IgM Serum
IGX Criteria: Positive
CDC/NYS Criteria: Negative“

The Igenex lab criteria says it’s positive for Lyme, but CDC says it’s not.
Ignore what the cdc says.

You have positive on bands 93, 31 and 23 for IgM -
Bands 93 and 23 are Lyme “specific” meaning only Lyme can cause those to show up.
31 is ‘almost’ lyme specific -
Igenex used to offer an extra test for and 31 - called the epitope test to find out if the band 31 is indeed from Lyme.

You don’t need to do the extra test because your results indicate Lyme without even looking into band 31.
The above positive bands indicate Lyme.


“ TBRF Borrelia ImmunoBlot IgM
TBRF Borrelia genus ImmunoBlot IgMSerum Pos(TBRF) Positive: Detected 2 or more TBRF Borrelia
TBRF Borrelia ImmunoBlot IgM Species
B. miyamotoi Serum Negative
B. hermsii Serum Negative
B. turicatae Serum Negative
TBRF Borrelia spp Serum Positive
TBRF Borrelia ImmunoBlot IgG “

Indicates your have Tickborne Relapsing Fever as well.
Posted 8/5/2021 10:54 AM (GMT 0)
as Girlie explained - results indicate positive for lyme and a TBRF species

interestingly both apparently only IgM - which in most infectious diseases suggests recent infection - but due to the complex nature of lyme - this isn't always the case

to clarify the "CDC positive/negative" situation - years ago when the CDC first decided Lyme was a possible issue in the USA - it decided to do what is called disease surveillance - that is to try and track its incidence across the country and especially if that incidence is increasing over time.

this is tricky in lyme as diagnosis has always been a problem - with known issues with all serological tests.
but since its a national program - they cant just use dr's clinical diagnosis as a national measure - as each doctor will vary dramatically in how they diagnose - so they need a repeatable consistent data point to track.
it doesn't actually matter for their purposes if this data point misses 90% of cases - as long as its consistent - so that if national cases rise this number also rises proportionally - by setting the criteria to be super strict and to exclude all but the most absolutely unquestionably positive cases that light up all the bands - they minimise false signals in their disease tracking data.
They then made it clear that this criteria should not be used for clinical purposes - ie diagnosing patients.
Alas - presumably because doctors want simple black and white tests "the CDC criteria" became commonly used as pass fail criteria for clinical use in many conventional medicine practices and still is today - despite the above being common knowledge.
Posted 8/5/2021 11:55 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks! I saw positive but the IgM and IgG bits are confusing. I have been sick for years so the more recent infection was throwing me off as well.
Posted 8/5/2021 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
yeah - IgM/IgG is a red herring in lyme - as lyme messes with the bodies ability to produce expected antibodies - some people - around 20% who are culture positive ( gold standard research test) never produce any detectable antibodies at all

in those who test positive it is common however to produce IgM antibodies for the duration of the illness or sporadically for reasons to do with he the spirochetes unusual ability to change its outer surface proteins to evade detection by the immune system.
Posted 8/5/2021 5:17 PM (GMT 0)
“ interestingly both apparently only IgM - which in most infectious diseases suggests recent infection - but due to the complex nature of lyme - this isn't always the case “

Mine and my husbands were both IgM positive. And I had Lyme for over a year.

I read something that Dr J wrote about Lyme being different - something to do with a continual “reactivation” which keeps IgM longer.
Posted 8/5/2021 9:18 PM (GMT 0)
My experience might help.

I have had Lyme for many years and I was IgM positive when I tested.

Here were my results for IgM:

Igenex Criteria: Positive
CDC/NYS Criteria: Positive

Bands:

23-25 positive
41 positive
45 positive
66 positive

39 : Indeterminate
83-93: Indeterminate

I agree with everything Girlie and Garzie said, I definitely think you have Lyme.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!
Posted 8/6/2021 10:20 AM (GMT 0)
its pretty well documented

the lyme disease organism has the largest genome of any bacteria so far discovered.

the large majority of this extra genetic material is dedicated to making different outer surface proteins

this enables it to change the proteins it has on its outer membrane - this is important as these are the ones the immune system is in contact with and trying to make antibodies to, which takes time - maybe 1 month and are initially IgM antibodies ( it later learns from these IgM antibodies what to make IgG antibodies to )

by the time the body has figured out what proteins to make antibodies to the organism has changed the proteins in the outer membrane and now looks like a new infection to the immune system - and so off the immune system goes again, trying to make new (IgM) antibodies to that - and so the cycle continues.....

you can see what an effective an immune avoidance mechanism this is - as the body never quite catches up to the microbe with its learned immunity.

you can also see how this would result in IgM antibodies being present on an ongoing basis in chronic infection

it is not always this way however - as the organism also has other immune disrupting strategies and one of these is it interferes with the bodies ability to make antibodies at all - and so we instead tend to see a somewhat randomised picture of: no antibodies, only IgM antibodies or a random mix of IgG and IgM antibodies.
Posted 8/6/2021 4:40 PM (GMT 0)

adbms said...
Thanks! I saw positive but the IgM and IgG bits are confusing. I have been sick for years so the more recent infection was throwing me off as well.

I was also IgM positive with an older infection (14 months?)

I do recall Dr J writing about it - don’t recall what he said - except that an older infection can still show up as IgM (vs IgG) (continual reactivation…?)
Posted 8/6/2021 5:51 PM (GMT 0)
Adbms,

Welcome. I'm both sorry and happy that you are here smile Please listen to the Mods/seasoned posters on here. I wish I 'knew' them all years ago.

My son and I had so many weird symptoms for years and tested for LD many times - through our GP. Told "Nope inconclusive, you never had a bullseye so you are both fine."

Well then I got bit and did get giant bulls eye and found a wonderful LLMD who explained the testing to me. He also explained, from our current IgenX tests, that we had Lyme all along (old infection vs acute).

So please move forward knowing that you now know what's been ailing you. The journey is somewhat long but you can heal. I really, really believe that. And the generosity of knowledge, sharing and kindness I have found here, I can never repay. Filled with forever gratitude for this board and how much the people on here helped us.

Be well and get busy healing smile Our bodies are made to heal.
Posted 8/9/2021 3:25 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you all. I am so glad to have found this forum.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply