Fenbendazole experience

carlnpa said...
Wlad - please update when you get a chance, day 3 is when it really kicks in.

Thanks for chiming in carlnpa! Was wondering how you've been doing with fenben. I appreciate you sharing your current protocol.

Anyways, I wish I could update you on day 3 but I've stopped taking fenben on day 2.

Long story:

I was in pretty decent shape before I've started taking fenben. No Herxing, just low-grade inflammation typical to Lyme & Co. I took 2 mL of liquid fenben which translates to 200mg of active fenben. I didn't have a 2.5 mL measure so I thought I'd start somewhat lower due to my low weight and to err on the safe side. My first dose I took it with breakfast. Day went on, didn't feel anything. I expected some chest pains and increased pulse, as that's what I got after taking albendazole in the past. It didn't happen with fenben. Then I ate my lunch and some late night meal. Before going to bed I felt that my digestion is off. It's never perfect but this time something was off. I felt really heavy and my meals along with Buhner herbs were clearly sitting in the stomach without going anywhere. Went to bed, couldn't fall asleep, felt nauseous. It felt like mild food poisoning. Took an extra melatonin, kept fighting trying to sleep, took another melatonin and fell asleep around 6am.

Second day - I wake up somewhat sleepy because of how late I managed to fall asleep but things are fine. No typical Herx symptoms such as fatigue, increased pulse or tachycardia, no chest pains - cool beans. I have my usual herbs with MB, breakfast with 2 mL of fenben. Day goes on, I have somewhat less appetite, so I skip lunch, eat dinner earlier than usual so that I don't feel that stuffed, bloated and nauseous again. Dang. Same thing as the day before, just much worse! Giant nausea, I felt like I'm really going to spend a night hugging toilet. Drank two hot chamomile teas, took triple dose of melatonin and fought until 6am again before I managed to fall asleep.

Third day - wake up, take a shower, step out and boom - I feel lightheaded, I'm about to pass out so I run to bedroom, sit down, still feeling bad so I jump to bed. Monster fatigue followed that. Basically on day 3 and day 4 I didn't eat much (3rd day 22 hours fast, 4th day just watermelon). On 5th day digestion came back and energy levels started going back up.

I've got to say it's not exactly what I expected in terms of a Herx. It felt like being poisoned with something. For a moment I doubted if what I've ordered ( https://www.ubuy.co.de/en/product/9Z2OK8-merck-goat-dewormer-125ml-2-pack) was really the stuff that it claimed to be. But when I read taste description by carlnpa, it was exactly that - tasteless, like chalk mixed with water.

Then I recalled seeing Bartonella striae/rash on the upper left and upper right quadrant of my abdomen on day 1 and day 2. Rarely something shows up but this time I could spot 4-6 o them at the same time. In my case they have no colors, they appeared like stretch marks, just in weird directions. As if under the skin, some 10cm / 4" long worms moved from spleen area downwards and the same from liver area downwards. I've got no idea how those striae get created to make them look the way they do.

Overall, after those 2 days of fenben I've realized my usual dull heart/chest pain got down to levels I could barely notice. Bart striae disappeared. I'm going to repeat fenben trial again, maybe next week or the week after, as approximately mid March 2022 I've developed swelling on my Th12 thoracic vertebrae. At first I thought it was just because I have slept on a sofa for 2 weeks but it looks like the bed curvature caused a small inflammation on my thoracic spine and Bartonella took the advantage of it. I did some research and it looks like it's not that uncommon for Bart to attack discs and vertebrae:

https://thejns.org/downloadpdf/journals/j-neurosurg-pediatr/22/2/article-p189.pdf
https://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/DiseaseInfo/pdf/bartonella-infections-in-humans-supplement.pdf

Going to get spinal MRI next week to see what's up with that. Meanwhile I've thrown in 200mg of Doxycycline + Clarithromycin to my Buhner + MB combo. Looks like I might need the usual Clarithro + Rifampin combo to deal with that spinal issue, assuming it won't end with a spinal surgery as that seems to be a common solution as per articles above.

P.S. Clarithromycin scares the hell out of me due to it's higher risk profile regarding arrhythmias / Tosade de Pointes / Ventricular Fibrillation issues reported in many journals.

Post Edited (wladek83) : 4/22/2022 7:19:30 PM (GMT-6)

wlad

Your presentation follows what others (and myself) have reported.

I was eventually able to take larger doses continuously, but that 3 day mark is where tolerability may end.

Its crazy, this is the dose for worming a 10 pound dog.

I would guess you have experienced a massive die off event of pathogens/parasites, and the toxicity following that.

Added - vlad the improvement shows up day 5/6, maybe something positive to look for.

Post Edited (carlnpa) : 4/23/2022 6:23:27 AM (GMT-6)

wlad

I find both roxithromycin and nitrofurantoin very tolerable, much more so than clarithromycin. The rox has the added benefit of being a cure for cdiff problems.

Roxithromycin was the foundation of the Gasser Protocol, late 1990's.

"Roxithromycin in the treatment of Lyme disease--update and perspectives"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7782115/

@garzie: when I get MRIs I always skip the contrast. 3Tesla MRs can present very good quality images. Doctors prefer CTs because it takes a few minutes instead of an hour. They can make more money that way. Of course, CT can be very detailed and catch things that would otherwise be very difficult to catch with MR such as intestines.

@carlnpa: Clari seems to be quite a heavy drug in my short experience. I've tried Doxycycline, Cefuroxime Axetil, Amoxy, sulfa + trimetoprim, Azithromycin, Penicillin. Might try nitrofurantoin and roxithromycin next. I wonder how much of your improvement comes from fenben and how much from roxi/nitro. I guess it would be hard to measure?

Hey wlad
i would love top know why the herx effects are so different with fenben vs other drugs also

and i know metronidazole(flagyl) and fenbendazole have similar names - but i think these maybe quite different drugs in terms of their chemistry and effects in the body - there are many different types of drugs that have azole in the name

i found this :

fenbendazole

Chemical Taxonomy

Description
This compound belongs to the class of organic compounds known as 2-benzimidazolylcarbamic acid esters. These are aromatic heteropolycyclic compounds that contain a carbamic acid ester group, which is N-linked to the C2-atom of a benzimidazole moiety.
Kingdom
Organic compounds
Super Class
Organoheterocyclic compounds
Class
Benzimidazoles
Sub Class
2-benzimidazolylcarbamic acid esters
Direct Parent
2-benzimidazolylcarbamic acid esters

metronidazole

Chemical Taxonomy

Description
This compound belongs to the class of organic compounds known as nitroimidazoles. These are compounds containing an imidazole ring which bears a nitro group.
Kingdom
Organic compounds
Super Class
Organoheterocyclic compounds
Class
Azoles
Sub Class
Imidazoles
Direct Parent
Nitroimidazoles

thanks for the update - good luck with the continuing trials

@RainyCloud: I think fenbendazole' action is different. With albendazole I didn't experience any nausea, bloating, fatigue. It was mostly affecting my heart (weak stabbing pains, increased rate). At that time I had pinworms and it helped deal with them. After all the heart issues subsided, I felt great. I could run too. It took a month before all the heart issues subsided though.

With fenben it's different. Zero heart issues, all the side effects are contained to GI tract. Even though they are both in the *azole group, I think they are still quite different in how they work and interact with other drugs.

Praziquantel - zero side effects. I could just drink it like water.

Well, people with cancer use all sorts of stuff even if it's usefulness is debatable and I get that. I did see some research papers claiming it worked in certain types of cancer so that's good news too. I don't see why fenben being anti-parasitic drug shouldn't also impact metabolism of cancer cells.

For now I'm not sure if fenben impacts bart. No typical bart-like herx yet (few hours after taking clarithromycin I've been herxing already). Not sure if it does enter cells - haven't found anything specific about that and with bart we need intracellular antimicrobials. Nevertheless I thought it's good to give it a try as it has a decent risk profile.

@carlnpa: I've heard claims you can't get rid of lyme unless you get rid of parasites first. I haven't seen any scientific research to validate those claims. Maybe it is true, maybe it's just a theory. Getting rid of roundworms is a step forward in my opinion. Don't think we need them and I'd lean towards them causing damage to GI tract, despite claims they actually help calm down intestinal inflammation.

Thanks for confirming fenben doesn't react with booze!

Post Edited (wladek83) : 5/5/2022 4:12:47 PM (GMT-6)

Looks like fenben-triggered nausea was not caused by mixing it with tinctures, not it was a side effect of fenben itself. After I passed what looked like a roundworm (spotted just one, wasn't paying attention with every bowel movement), nausea disappeared. Third day of fenben was a smooth ride and I feel like I could continue taking it for longer. I'm going to take 4 days off and resume afterwards, sticking to 3 days on / 4 days off for a bit given that I feel no nasty side effects of it anymore.

I feel fenben might be poking Bart (or Lyme?). Yesterday, which was a 3rd day of fenben, I felt muscle twitching all over my body. It happened to me in the past when I took oregano oil. So either fenben breaks up biofilms or it interacts with Bart in some other way.

Good luck there WalkingbyFaith. It's been 3 weeks and 3x 3 days ON / 4 days OFF. I've got to say it's not as annoying as it was the first week which was horrible. Fingers crossed it's a smooth ride for you.

wlad if you can source ivermectin it is worth adding for a synergistic potent combination.

walking
I hope it goes easy for you, if not fenben should clear within 2/3 days of last dose. Subsequent dosing seems to be easier with each round.

Well, I guess it’s time for me to give a report.

I used the powder packets Sat, Sun, Mon around full moon. I took the doses in mid afternoon right after lunch.

Day 1 - noticed nothing

Day 2 - after first getting up felt a lot of joint and muscle stiffness and burning in face; - noticed also that my knees feel weird - combination of stiffness and numbness. More bowel movements.

Day 3 - felt more joint and muscle stiffness when walking; more bowel movements

Day 4 - took 4 Mimosa pudica in the am and went shopping this day; had noticeable muscle fatigue/exercise intolerance - harder to walk, felt exhausted. Was feeling exhausted and a dry throat when I left the mall. Drove 20 minutes and got to grocery store. Had a lot of trouble walking from muscle fatigue when getting out at the grocery store. Noticed some slight burning with urine during the day and felt like a lot of toxins were coming out in urine.

Day 5 - woke up with sore throat which actually started while shopping the day before; got tested for COVID - negative, felt hot but temp was 97.9 at clinic; still feeling fatigue. Later got nasal congestion to go with it. Feel under the weather all over.

Day 6 (today) - same as yesterday

Not sure if the fatigue is from the fenben or from whatever sickness this is brewing. First time I have had a cold since Jan 2019, I think. Haven’t been around any sick people. Weird.

EDIT: As far as severity of symptoms, I would say the 3 days on were unnoticeable to mild. I saw no worms except possibly ropeworm which I always have, but I did have an increase in the frequency of bowel movements, and they have been looser and gassier.

EDIT 2: So far, this has been the opposite of my 2 weeks of Ivermectin and then 2 weeks of Alinia. The Alinia only made me feel increasingly better and really took down the muscle fatigue and exercise intolerance considerably.

EDIT 3: Either Day 2 or 3, I noticed when looking in the mirror that my eyes looked clearer, brighter, whites were whiter, and eyes lids were more fully open. Not sure what that was about, but it didn’t last.

Post Edited (WalkingbyFaith) : 5/19/2022 6:45:47 AM (GMT-6)

You know, all this reminds me that Hulda Clark believed treating parasites would cure cancer and other illnesses. She was pretty “out there,” but she was probably right about a lot of stuff.