Knee pain with rifampin?

Hi everyone, I just added in rifampin to the clarithromycin I've been on for 2.5 months, as well as ADP oregano and black walnut, both of which gave me very bart-like herxing, rage, foot pain, etc. I suspect, as does my doctor, that bartonella is my main issue if not my only infection based on my exposure history and how all my symptoms came on after we adopted our cats when I was a kid. So anyway, I've noticed that after I take a dose, I get left knee pain. I always thought the knees were more of a lyme thing. I'm not completely denying that I have lyme but with my history it just doesn't seem as likely, so I'm curious if others have noticed knee pain with bartonella? I know it can cause joint pain in general and I know there are no hard and fast rules/everyone is different, but I thought it had more of a proclivity for the small joints.

morningstars said...
Hi everyone, I just added in rifampin to the clarithromycin I've been on for 2.5 months, as well as ADP oregano and black walnut, both of which gave me very bart-like herxing, rage, foot pain, etc. I suspect, as does my doctor, that bartonella is my main issue if not my only infection based on my exposure history and how all my symptoms came on after we adopted our cats when I was a kid. So anyway, I've noticed that after I take a dose, I get left knee pain. I always thought the knees were more of a lyme thing. I'm not completely denying that I have lyme but with my history it just doesn't seem as likely, so I'm curious if others have noticed knee pain with bartonella? I know it can cause joint pain in general and I know there are no hard and fast rules/everyone is different, but I thought it had more of a proclivity for the small joints.

I had knee pain - could be Bartonella… or Lyme.

Thanks everyone for sharing. Yeah as I've been taking it a bit longer, I'm definitely noticing a flare up about 1/2 hr to 1hr after I take it, so it's definitely causing my joint pain. I've also had some psych stuff so I suspect that it is indeed the bartonella, but who knows.

Yeah I've also heard that he says expect a worsening of "deep tissue pain" after 1-2 weeks of treatment, which is almost bang on when I started experiencing this. Except I don't know what deep tissue necessarily means... I've also had some shooting pain in what feels like the tendons of my wrists and ankles. Quite an interesting process, if I'm honest. It's nice to be responding in the way that the doctor says to expect, it makes me feel more confident in the process.

Do you know what he means by "immune complexes forming as a result of treatment"?

Ohh interesting okay. I was just rewatching some of that lecture last night but I think I started half way through, I'll take a listen to the whole thing. Thanks! Your explanation does make sense.

“ He also says he's only seen 9 patients out of hundreds relapse after clarithromycin and rifampin.“

Seriously? I doubt that.

Not sure if I can add anything useful here or not, but I read these posts with interest.

I have never taken Rifampin and only treated with herbs. I am confident I have bartonella, and tested positive for Lyme. Can you describe your knee pain?

KNEES -
I never had red or swollen joints or what I thought arthritic type pain would be like. Instead, I had what may have been tendon tightness on the sides of the knee. I also used to have to crack my joints a lot, especially the knees. They would get “stuck,” and I would have to crack them.

I also had nighttime aching pain in my knees and legs. The doctor said they were growing pains when I was a child, but I never outgrew them. Strangely, they went away after I saw a chiropractor for the first time around age 40.

DEEP TISSUE PAIN -
I don’t know exactly what this is either, but I definitely had it when treating. It was probably one of the worst types of pain for me. I called it toxin pain. Garzie’s description of what he understood “immune complexes” to be makes sense with that type of pain. It was awful and made me so miserable. I would feel so toxic and my tissues would burn and I would have sore spots all around my hip bones and the back of my ribs. I would have scalp soreness and once, I even felt like my blood or my blood vessels hurt.

SMALL JOINTS -
I had significant small joint pain and stiffness. I still have it some, but Japanese knotweed and houttuynia did a lot for that. I always assumed it was from bartonella. Mine was bilateral in all the fingers and toes. I always thought Lyme affected isolated joints and was more like typical arthritis.