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Emotional component to disease

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Posted 2/26/2013 1:23 AM (GMT 0)
Okay, okay, that's enough.
Nspeedracer, if you don't agree with the info in this thread, stop reading it. You are not required to read every thread, so please don't post in threads that upset you.

The rest can just behave now, please?
Posted 2/26/2013 1:29 AM (GMT 0)
Peacesoul,

I never said that your words to her were a threat. I thought that you were threatening not to post. That's a completely different issue. Why would you get upset with me in expressing sadness with the thought that you would stop posting? I meant well. Why would you continue all of the negativity?

Don
Posted 2/26/2013 2:04 AM (GMT 0)
I really hate to see where this thread is going because its such an interesting topic!!!

So I'm going to ignore the arguments at hand and reply to the original post. I also believe that a positive mindset is key to healing from any disease, but I also believe that being diagnosed with Lyme Disease and Co. makes it so hard to stay positive! We have to "secretly" find a doctor, we get brutally attacked with assumptions about our situation from many doctors (and sometimes friends, and family, co-workers, etc). We don't get the help, compassion and support we truly need.

That's what makes us become desperate, IMO. I'm doing everything possible to keep a positive mind set, eating well, resting, meditating taking my medications and supplements, but it's hard.


I'm on the verge of losing my health insurance and if that happens I can't afford treatment. I can barely afford the supplements as it is!
I am a firm believer that it takes medication, a good diet, and positive attitude to heal from all this.

So I'm just wondering how do you stay positive and overcome when it feels like the world is against you at times? I've been told it's all in my head, it's because I don't exercise enough, etc etc.

I don't have to explain this to you guys, you've all been there. But for those of us that are just barely scraping by because of this disease, where do we go from here?

I can't go back in time and find my inner strength, so now that the disease has got me, how do I keep from letting it progress?

I guess I'm just saying I completely understand the mindset is crucial, but it's not a simple fix.

I hope I can continue to have the inner strength to overcome, but I definitely have anger issues in relation to what this disease has taken, and still is taking, away from me.
Posted 2/26/2013 2:40 AM (GMT 0)
This is why it is insulting to have people insinuate that you basically brought illness upon yourself by not being positive enough.
Its more insulting than having someone who doesnt feel your pain say it must all be in your head.

My disagreement posting was brought on by being a bit insulted by the whole mind/body blame game. You may think its not a blame game, but I assure you it is because you are trying to find cause/solution and part of the cause here, in this debate, is attitude and emotional health. You can tell its part of the cause because you are using it as the solution too.

Yes, you also insulted me, my age, my practice, ect ect ect and saying someone is new or young is meant to say they are inexperienced, and that means they do not have as much knowledge.

I ignored all of those attacks and only debate the issue I see before me.
Yes, emotional health is good for you and everyone around you, but I think it can be used to mislead people and promise things it cannot produce, like cures for real diseases like lyme.

My concern is ultimately who gets blamed, who is vulnerable, who is promised treatment results that dont pan out, who gets blamed when those therapies dont work. The consequences.

My Lyme symptoms started during a pregnancy which shifted my immune system and opened the door for the bacteria to flourish, not having a bad attitude or repressed emotions. Its just plain insulting to me to have people insinuate this or that I am in any way the reason that I am sick. Others are expressing their difficulties in keeping a positive attitude thru the pain and illness, so many people here do not have the greatest mood all of the time.

Thats what bothered me about this post.
And I know that youre going to argue that this wasnt what you said, insinuated or the likes... but at the bottom of it, it is.

Hopefully I have made my point by now, if not, there is no reason to keep trying.
Regardless, I hope all of you find health and happiness.
Posted 2/26/2013 3:02 AM (GMT 0)
Lets all watch Vampire Diaries and figure out how they turn their emotions off. Looks pretty wicked awesome to me!
Posted 2/26/2013 5:22 AM (GMT 0)

If you think that lyme disease can be healed by simply addressing emotional issues, let's see the results. Do you have any success stories which can be verified? We all know that positive emotions, expectations can affect health, the immune system etc...but that is a long way from the claim that with the right psycho-therapy one can rid the body of lyme and co-infections. At, best, in my opinion such therapy may be a possibly useful adjunct, but where is there any evidence anywhere that anyone has successfully been cleared of lyme and co useing psycho-therapy as the primary mode of treatment? Do you suggest that people stop other modalities? Stop the herbs, the abx etc?

Ironically, one of the biggest purveyers of the mind/body connection are insurance companies - in fact it's been documented that efforts at reducing liability for whiplash soft tissue injuries and their resulting pain caused in car accidents, by asserting or proving that such injuries are actually emotionally based,  have been encouraged and financed by insurance cos...Now it may seem upsurd to attempt to reduce a physically caused injury, such as that caused in a car accident, to

having an emotional basis, but this is actually what some well financed research attempted to do - and it doesn't seem far away at all from claiming that lyme is an emotionally based disease - in the process ignoring them little spirochetes, and the ticks, and the infants that get the disease congenitally, and the animals, dogs, cats - who though while not having as complex an emotional life as some humans, do exibit a broad enough emotional range that one would think psycho-therapy may be a necessary adjunct for the treatment of lyme in these animals. 

The mind body connection exists, but it works in both directions. In my opinion in lyme, it's the physical infection which affects the mind and not visa versa, at least not significantly. There are many documented cases of people going from the pits of despair to mental and physical health through simply getting rid of the infection. There are many many accounts of people who appeared to be normal, sane, productive, physically healthy etc...who after being infected, swung in the opposite mental and physical direction.....Lyme and co.. can also affect the brain directly resulting in sometimes severe mental symptoms... it's hard to believe that someone might have the hutzpa to claim that if such people just switched gears mentally they might get rid of the infection. 

Just because a general proposition is true, that there is a mind/body connection, doesn't mean it's responsible or valid to expand it into a specific area that, for whatever reason, one deems appropriate, especially when there is no evidence backing your particular claim.     

Posted 2/26/2013 6:59 AM (GMT 0)
tonesg,

You said:"

If you think that lyme disease can be healed by simply addressing emotional issues, let's see the results."


I don't believe that she ever said that. In fact, she said quite the opposite:

"...a homeopath and a Rhuem tell me my illness (dx lupus and lyme) was exacerbated by my emotional state (at the time I had major anxious and depression)."

"My healing journey helped me understand that ALL illness (the body doesn't care what name we give illness) is an illness of mind/body and soul."

"Most people with illness are just looking for the magic pill to cure their symptoms, but rarely look deep into the cause."

"Each and every true illness has a deep emotional component to it. This does not mean illness is all "in our heads" or "does not exist". It means that when the emotional "person" is broken down, the body follows and the only way to truly heal is to fix the emotions along with the physical body."

"Unless you heal your emotional state, you cannot ever heal from any illness."


Maybe my reading comprehension is poor, but here goes: I think that she is saying that the treatment of the body is usually performed to the neglect of the emotions. Both must be treated. I don't see a problem here. If damaging emotions are at the core of what is wrong with a person, then, it would be logical to also address that issue as well, wouldn't it? She certainly did not make an absolute statement that the only cause of illness is emotions, and that the only way to cure the physical illness is to only address the emotions.

Frankly, I tend to think that she is absolutely correct. I will give an example from my own experience. My brother-in-law was literally trained to be fearful from the youngest age. He told me that his parents always overreacted to potential dangers in his life. He became afraid of getting lost, afraid to fly, tunnels, afraid of elevators, etc.

He opened up an auto-body shop right out of high school. He specialized in restoring antique cars. He sanded a lot of vintage cars with lead paint for over 30 years, and never wore a respirator. As the years passed, the fears that he already had became even stronger. He was tested about 1 year ago, and he was off-the-scale with lead, mercury, cadmium, and a healthy dose of arsenic. He was heavy metal chelated by an MD for almost a year, but his emotional state only became worse.

He discontinued the chelation, and only agreed to go to the Hansa Center out of desperation. I had to drive him, and the 20 hr. drive was terrible. We had to drive through 3 tunnels on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. We were not sure whether we were on the right road a few times, and I can't even describe how upset he was dozens of times on our journey.

He had 10 days of treatment at the Hansa Center. They found that his heavy metal burden was still high. While the detoxification methods at the Hansa Center are superb, do you really think that an appreciable amount was removed from his body in 10 days? In fact, that wasn't the only treatment that he received while he was there. His doctor did a lot of emotional release on him. Emotional trauma can be physically manifested in the body, and treated with both counseling and physically oriented treatments. While his doctor was releasing bound up emotions in his body with bio-energetic treatments, my brother-in-law wept like a baby- according to my sister. He did this several times during his 10 days of treatments. The funny thing is that my brother-in-law is not a candidate for repeated public displays of weeping, unless the bio-energetic treatments were actually causing him to both emotionally and physically process the old emotional trauma. His emotional state continues to improve 6 weeks after he left the clinic. According to my sister- her husband is now the man she never knew. My brother-in-law himself admits that he now has a new life.

Yes, I'm sure that the heavy metals were a major issue for my brother-in-law. Nonetheless, we can see that the heavy metals were not the only problem. In his case, his emotional trauma was at the core off his illness, and he could not be cured unless his emotions were dealt with.

My daughter was treated at the Hansa Center as well. Her doctor found physical manifestations of emotional trauma in her body as well. While he was physically releasing the emotions, she said that she was doing a lot of thinking about certain things from the past, and that she felt like she almost was going to cry. In both cases, there was no psychological counseling. The bio-energetic treatments caused them to reflect and to emotionally process past hurts. The doctors removed the physical manifestations.

You can call me crazy, bit that's my story, and I am sticking to it! I have said all of this not to try to win an argument, or to belittle other points of view, but to invite people to open their minds a little, and to think outside of the box.

P.S. Whatever the insurance companies think is irrelevant to healing. That is a red herring and added nothing of value to the discussion since the Insurance company's excuse for non payment is not the same as peacesoul's belief that there is an emotional component to illness. Were you trying to establish peacesoul's error by association with insurance companies? My insurance company paid very little of our daughter's conventional ABX treatments. They did not pay a cent towards the treatment that made her well at the Hansa Center. We have paid over $55,000 out-of-pocket to make her well. In our case, our insurance company is not our friend. Maybe peacesoul does not have a very high view of insurance companies as well, but I cannot speak for her.

Don
Posted 2/26/2013 9:58 AM (GMT 0)

Well... this is getting a most interesting thread...

Let's keep it simple (my brain is not up to making long complicated sentences right now): I'm a 100% convinced that the Lyme/Bartonella was caused by a bite coming from some tick and/or insect. I'm convinced that the Hodgkin's Lymphoma I had when I was 15 was caused by a compromised immunity system in combination with EBV.

I am not at all blaming myself for the diseases I encountered in my life. It hasn't crossed my mind (and no, I'm not suppressing it :-) ). I just caught it, plain and simple. It happened, and it happened to be in my life.
On the contrary, hard as these diseases are, I've came to see them as a sort of asset to my life. It thaught me so much. And the situation I am / were in pushes/d me into discovering very valuable things in life.

When I'm dealing with things from my past, or with the inner child, or with traumas I contracted over the years (ia caused by a disease), I am sure it can only be beneficial to my healing process now. Not healing the traumas from my cancer period will definitely not benefit me healing from Lyme/Bart, the difficult subjects will only come back and double back until dealt with.

Whenever I'm stressed or in a really angry mood for a only an hour, a day or more, I will immediatly develop cold sores (like Don), or a bad cold (even bronchitis will set through), or start to cough for a few days.
Considering what meditation can do, I can only deduct from that and from the above that healing your body also indissoluble includes healing your mind, and the other way around.

I will continue taking my abx, herbal protocol, meditating, healing my mind (that clearly suffered from being ill) and healing my body (that also suffers when my mind or spiritual side is not in balance).

I don't want to seem mean or stirr up this thread , but If I want to talk to my inner child, that'll be my decision. I'm not a resentful person, but I don't need people to make fun of what I'm trying to accomplish in my life.

Posted 2/26/2013 12:13 PM (GMT 0)
Either we all get along on this thread or I will lock it down. There is a valid idea being discussed here and no one - not even me(not my opinions about it anyway) - is required to post in this thread.

If members wish to discuss a topic that you don't believe in, then don't post. Very simple, and not a new idea on this forum at all.

Quite literally - if you can't say it nicely, then don't say it here.



There is a way to discuss things that not everyone believes in......a polite way......and that is more than allowed on this forum.

Discussions educate people, arguments and posts that attack/inflame/or just stir the pot don't help anyone.
Posted 2/26/2013 2:13 PM (GMT 0)
Took me a while to decide if I was even going to reply here. I am very solid in my believes about my profession and my work, so will not defend it in any way

NSpeed: My comments about you being new to practice was not an insult in the least, you took it that way because I was calling you out on your inexperience, which is fact, not an insult. You can tell from your replies and inability to even comprehend what I was saying, how little experience you actually have as a therapist. You will see in time and as you grow as a therapist, how comments like the ones you made here were not about a "professional opinion" at all!

No one is blaming the sick person, there is no blame (but I did say that many times in here but you chose to keep saying I am placing blame), there is only healing.
Emotions DO CAUSE the body to heal or break down. That is Pysch 101, (I was a psych major)
I've never once told anyone to get off abx or herbs (I prescribe them to sick ppl for God sakes), but what I do do is work healing MIND and BODY! <--- you see those words. BOTH mind and body!

All you care about is making your point by saying "Hopefully I made my point", trying to control this thread by making your point and discounting my point says to me your word is the only one valid here. You have not an inkling of how to medically or spiritually treat sick people so no, your point was not made since it makes no sense.

Take my words as insults (you came at me. not the other way around), so if you don't want to be discredited, you probably should stop trying so hard at "making your point" cause you took my words and mished mashed them to suit you and didn't even argue against what I was saying. You argued against what you understood

I don't need to SHOVE my experience down anyone's throat like you seem to want to do, I've been coming to this site for a long time (was also a mod here for a while), I am healed Lyme sufferer, and I am also a well respected Naturopath and wellness therapist and stop by here when I can to offer some perspective to how I healed and how I heal my clients.
My word is not the end all and may resonate with some, and may not. I can't control that. But I will reply to ppl like you who want to try to discredit me.
Many of my clients post here so it's up to them if they want to post and discount your accusations of me (along with Tone who's posted 4 times in 4 years and was on here looking for an ND). You don't know me, you don't know how I work and you come on here thinking that because your a "therapist", your word is final!

You and Tone have totally misconstrued what I have said. You are both entitled to disagree but to disagree on what I said, not what you "thought" I said. Don and the others totally got what I was saying. But you didn't? (by the way Don, great post)
You have ZERO experience with Lyme clients and ZERO experience with the Mind/Body connection. But you say you have lyme, so I suspect you will discover this connection (trust me the lyme journey will bring you there) and while you move along in your practice and see the only way to heal a patient is to deal with their emotions (but your a psychologist so you would know this), then you will understand my words (my words, not what you understood) here.

If my post bothered you so much, then like the mods have said, you always had the choice to not post on it. A degree doesn't make you professional since really, your replies here are not words another "professional" would have replied to me.

This time my words here to you are not as nice but you sort of deserved it! I won't engage you or Tone since this sort of dynamics you created is not conducive to healing in any way.

Thanks all for listening.....take what you need and leave the rest. My original post was shared to heal, not create the negative effect Nspeed decided to give it.

If anyone wants to truly discuss this topic (whether you agree or not), I am so opened to it. I am not here to change your mind, make you see my way, but would rather talk about your experiences with what I said. ALL ND's work with the mind /body /soul connection so if you have an ND who worked with you addressed this topic, would love to hear about it.

Peace all
Posted 2/26/2013 2:30 PM (GMT 0)
Took me a while to decide if I was even going to reply here. I am very solid in my beliefs about my profession and my work, so will not defend it in any way

NSpeed: My comments about you being new to practice was not an insult in the least, you took it that way because I was calling you out on your inexperience, which is fact, not an insult. You can tell from your replies and inability to even comprehend what I was saying, how little experience you actually have as a therapist. You will see in time and as you grow as a therapist, how comments like the ones you made here were not about a "professional opinion" at all!

No one is blaming the sick person, there is no blame (but I did say that many times in here but you chose to keep saying I am placing blame), there is only healing.
Emotions DO CAUSE the body to heal or break down. That is Pysch 101, (I was a psych major)
I've never once told anyone to get off abx or herbs (I prescribe them to sick ppl for God sakes), but what I do do is work healing MIND and BODY! <--- you see those words. BOTH mind and body!

All you care about is making your point by saying "Hopefully I made my point", trying to control this thread by making your point and discounting my point says to me your word is the only one valid here. You have not an inkling of how to medically or spiritually treat sick people so no, your point was not made since it makes no sense.

Take my words as insults (you came at me. not the other way around), so if you don't want to be discredited, you probably should stop trying so hard at "making your point" cause you took my words and mished mashed them to suit you and didn't even argue against what I was saying. You argued against what you understood

I don't need to SHOVE my experience down anyone's throat like you seem to want to do, I've been coming to this site for a long time (was also a mod here for a while), I am healed Lyme sufferer, and I am also a well respected Naturopath and wellness therapist and stop by here when I can to offer some perspective to how I healed and how I heal my clients.
My word is not the end all and may resonate with some, and may not. I can't control that. But I will reply to ppl like you who want to try to discredit me.
Many of my clients post here so it's up to them if they want to post and discount your accusations of me (along with Tone who's posted 4 times in 4 years and was on here looking for an ND). You don't know me, you don't know how I work and you come on here thinking that because your a "therapist", your word is final!

You and Tone have totally misconstrued what I have said. You are both entitled to disagree but to disagree on what I said, not what you "thought" I said. Don and the others totally got what I was saying. But you didn't? (by the way Don, great post)
You have ZERO experience with Lyme clients and ZERO experience with the Mind/Body connection. But you say you have lyme, so I suspect you will discover this connection (trust me the lyme journey will bring you there) and while you move along in your practice and see the only way to heal a patient is to deal with their emotions (but your a psychologist so you would know this), then you will understand my words (my words, not what you understood) here.

If my post bothered you so much, then like the mods have said, you always had the choice to not post on it. A degree doesn't make you professional since really, your replies here are not words another "professional" would have replied to me.

This time my words here to you are not as nice but you sort of deserved it! I won't engage you or Tone since this sort of dynamics you created is not conducive to healing in any way.

Thanks all for listening.....take what you need and leave the rest. My original post was shared to heal, not create the negative effect Nspeed decided to give it.

If anyone wants to truly discuss this topic (whether you agree or not), I am so opened to it. I am not here to change your mind, make you see my way, but would rather talk about your experiences with what I said. ALL ND's work with the mind /body /soul connection so if you have an ND who worked with you addressed this topic, would love to hear about it.

Peace all
Posted 2/26/2013 3:10 PM (GMT 0)
Haters are gonna hate. I have to support peacesoul on this 100%. I've taken a lot from this board, there are truly some awesome, awesome people here that go out of their way to answer your questions and they deserve the highest accolades for this.

A few people I still converse with off-board as I value their insight. One I'd even call a new friend. This is a great board for those who have questions about Lyme and how to treat it. Ultimately it's your choice the path you want to take. As we all know this is a very complex disease that affects people in many different ways. I've gone both the LLMD heavy abx route and I've gone the NP route. Of the two, the NP approach got me back to a place where I'm almost well.

This board is, and should be, a place for helping people, not debates. If you have an issue with something someone posts, step back and think, 'should I go back to the thread and post my opinion, or should I send a PM to this person?' IMHO the latter should be done almost 100% of the time...as it should have been done in this thread.

Be well all.

april81972
Posted 3/10/2013 12:37 PM (GMT 0)
April.....well said...thank you


If anyone is interested, this is another MD who's work I follow closely. His belief is exact to the belief I talked about in this thread.

Here is his site and some interviews with him. There is a true connection to the connection to all illness and the mind.

I hope you all get a chance to watch these



http://drgabormate.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrNxvpTDo_

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycpETpqxYq0
Posted 3/10/2013 12:54 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks peacesoul, I'll have a look at it.
Posted 3/10/2013 3:15 PM (GMT 0)
I'm a bit depressed today and read this thread. I needed this PeaceSoul, thank you so much. I'm thankful for what is happening, but haunted by the neuro symptoms. I find myself crying everyday. I also find myself in pain from missing my mother who passed 3 years ago. She was my rock. I pray for better days. I know they are coming I just wish I knew when. I have other emotional things happening and its time to just accept them, let it be as you said.

Another epiphany I had this week is the fact that I hate my job. It's not helping my healing. I decided once I am healed to go to school to become a health and wellness coach. Also to have a schedule to make room for my dreams and passions and most importantly I want more time with my son.

Thank you again. Don't stop posting because its needed. I need to see more positivity :-)
Posted 3/10/2013 4:06 PM (GMT 0)
TheWryter: thank you as well for your kind words.
I also was very sick and disliked my job, my relationship and a lot in my life. When I was dx with illness, I went back to take courses in natural healing, more to just learn about ME, but then it snowballed and I ended up doing the 4yr program and a 1 yr clinical and became a Naturopath. I ended up losing my job and my horrible ex all in 4 weeks which was SO hard, but a blessing. When both of those left me, I started to get really well.

Never give up, always have faith and just know you have all the power inside of you to get well and heal.
I think it's AMAZING you want to use your pain to help others..I did the same and don't regret it for one minute.

hugs
Posted 3/11/2013 2:06 PM (GMT 0)
Peacesoul,

I too appreciate your thread very much. I've had some traumas in my life and it wasn't UNTIL I got sick, that I seem to keep going back and revisiting them. I'm starting to understand, even regardless of my Lyme journey, that these wounds need to be dealt with at some point. I call them 'black spots'--little dark places of my soul that I know affect the rest of my being. It's not much, less than most, but still part of MY being that I know needs to be addressed.

Try not to get too riled up by some of the posters here. If a person is in a negative mindset on a particular day and reads a particular post that happens to strike a chord for whatever reason, sometimes they respond in like when they may not on a different day with a different mindset. I know because I'm guilty of doing this myself. Sometimes people just want answers, they want something or someone to blame. Again, I've been there many times myself. I'm working hard to change my mindset and certainly if I'm feeling particularly negative on any given day, I don't post at all. Because I don't want to spread negativity. Noone here needs my nonsense! LOL Everyone has their own stuff to deal with.

But please know, and I'm not the first to say it and I'm not the only one that agrees--what you said really, really resonates with some of us here. You, Deejavu, Don, Traveler and many others all seem to belong to the same school of thought and that is: it's not just about the Lyme. Please don't stop posting because there are some in disagreement. Those of us who do agree so appreciate the information that is given to us. I am not mentally capable MOST of the time to do alot of research, reading, etc. I literally can't remember if I just took my meds or not, that's how bad my brain fog gets. When I get information in a short, concise format it is sooo helpful and I appreciate it so much!!

So thank you for coming back and sharing it!!
Posted 3/11/2013 9:55 PM (GMT 0)
Hi all,

I also believe that our minds play an important role in any disease or in any life experience.  Yet everyone thinks differently, some only are able to concentrate on bacteria, while others are able to look at the big picture. 

When I was younger I used to love to read O. Henry and one of his stories that applies to this thread is called "The Last Leaf"..  One can google the story if they want.  Basically, a young lady became ill with pneumonia and she would look outside at this vine with leaves during a blistery cold winter.  The leaves blew off and this young lady said to her sister that when the last leaf was gone, she would be gone too.   She believed that with all her heart.  Her sister spoke to another artist who lived in the same building about her dying sister's thoughts about this leaf. 

Well, the next morning that last leaf was still there and the sick young lady was better because she saw that leaf.  Little did she know that the elderly artist had painted it on during the middle of the night.  So that's one story.

Another one is a true story about myself in September of 1974.  After I was run over by a car and was operated on, I was told by doctors that I would not be able to walk on my left leg for about 6 months, that I would need crutches.  Being the person I am, I stayed up all night and with my good right leg kicked my bad leg forcing it to move.  In my mind I refused to accept what the doctors told me.  The next morning I asked the nurse to get me a walking IV (I was hooked up to all sorts of things) and I told her I was going to walk on both my legs with no help. 

And I did.  Many doctors came to see me walk and they couldn't believe it.  The mind is a powerful tool. 

But remember, we can not change others, we can only change ourselves if we are open to it.  As far as others, we can only suggest and then it's up to that person.

Cheers!

Denise 

Posted 3/11/2013 11:51 PM (GMT 0)
I also wanted to use a very powerful example of how the mind affects the body as I, too, am a psych major: how does one explain PTSD if there is no mind/body connection???

I'm not saying that a positive attitude is ALL it takes to get well. If that we're true, many would not be sick. But the mind absolutely has power over every cell in our bodies. Sometimes we have emotional ailments that need to be addressed along with the physical.
Posted 3/12/2013 3:06 AM (GMT 0)
Shabby: thank you so much for that share and your honesty. I truly appreciate your sharing your story.
And yes, sometimes one can read with the mindset they are in at the time.

Deeja: LOVE LOVE LOVE the story about the little girl and the leaf! So true! I am going to find this story on google and post it on my work FB page (all are welcome to join my page if the mods say it's ok to share the link?)

Shabby: have you ever heard of read "The Biology of Belief"? I read it right after I was dx with Lupus/Lyme and was like "WHAT, no way" but WAY!! read it if you have a chance
Posted 3/12/2013 4:24 AM (GMT 0)
I love to hear many points of view, even when I may disagree with it. I love to listen to what the person is actually saying, and then i mentally interact with it based on what I know and understand. I sometimes think that some people don't really listen to what those who believe in an emotional component to Lyme disease are really saying.

A human being is an integration of mind, body, and spirit. Is it logical that the body could impact the welfare of the mind, but that the reverse would not also be true? I think not.

I find it deplorable when an intelligent person insists that all a chronically ill person has to do is to kill the bug. When the person has not been getting any better from a narrowly focused treatment, they will still insist that their viewpoint is the only scientific one.

There is usually a "fatal flaw" in the person that presented a favorable environment in the person for the microbe to multiply unhindered. After years of illness, there are usually other secondary "fatal flaws" that have manifested, and must be corrected if healing is to transpire.

Those of us that see an emotional component to illness are not saying that it is the only component to illness. Any ONE fatal flaw can present an insurmountable obstacle to healing. A physician can use a combination of optimal healing modalities, yet, if one fatal flaw is left unaddressed, it is very possible that healing may not take place. Why would this be so hard to understand? Opponents of our point of view like to employ pejorative language when referring to our point of view. We don't say "its your fault" when referring to an extremely bitter or negative attitude that we believe is hindering healing from illness. However, we know from experience that that bitter root of bitterness and negativity must be addressed if we are to realistically expect healing.

I can share an extreme but true example. I met a person through a mutual friend of mine at a party. She had been diagnosed with Lyme and coinfections, and had been sick for years. I listened intently while she told me of her symptoms and her terrible life. Then i started to interact with her, asking questions, and making suggestions. I could tell that she eventually was not interested in listening to what I had to say, for she had already made up her mind. She exuded an attitude of bitterness and negativity. She finally said that she would be sick for the rest of her life, and that she would not waste time or energy looking for a cure! I started out with innocent and good intentions, but she sure took the wind out of my sails! I gave up and found a tactful way to talk to another person. There is no way that I believe that she can be healed with a mindset like that. its tragic but true.

Don
Posted 3/12/2013 5:38 AM (GMT 0)

I too believe that mind, spirit, and body interact and can work

for or against health. Prayer has been shown to enhance the immune system. There are  many examples of "miracle" cures from disciplines such as qigong,  or prayer ect... I used and use energy medicine, some qigong, try to avoid stress ect... It's probably the case that childhood trauma, current negative relationships, financial stress, uncertainty etc..add to an emotional environment that may hinder healing in some cases.  That said, and not wanting to be a "hater" or "negative", it seems that the case for the emotions and the mind being key in all or most cases of lyme is maybe an overstatement, imho. It' just an opionion, but it is based on my own case and many others who have shared their experiences. I became asymptomatic from lyme just using the salt/c protocol and changing my diet. There are many others who have done so also. I was "floxed" after beating lyme and I started then using qigong and energy medicine, but as far as lyme goes, it was salt/c and diet.  

Don, once again, i'm not trying to be provacative, but what is the

"fatal flaw" your referring to below?

"There is usually a "fatal flaw" in the person that presented a favorable environment in the person for the microbe to multiply unhindered. After years of illness, there are usually other secondary "fatal flaws" that have manifested, and must be corrected if healing is to transpire."

And those who don't have the "fatal" flaw, are they immune from disease or catching infections that then "multiply unhindered"?

A question, what role does the mind play if any, in combatting or increasing the vulnerability to what is the main other spirochete illness, Syphilis? or other infectious diseases like the measels, msra, the flu, chickenpox, gonorrea? I am the last person to defend conventional medicine, but in some cases, all that is needed is a shot, or series of shots to heal, even lyme if it's caught early enough can be knocked out with a series of shots.

For those lyme patients who don't have the financial resources to explore mental, emotional healing with a professional, are there other less expensive or free alternatives or are such patients doomed to never heal? So far in this thread, just how one practically addresses these issues hasn't been mentioned, or I missed it. Are there specific techniques that have proven effective for lyme patients who wern't getting better but then made a break-through? I know Dr. K

used/uses something called, I believe, "field therapy" for cases he felt were stuck due to emotional, relationship trauma, but I wasn't able to find much info on what that entails. Is traditional psychotherapy a possible route?   

Posted 3/12/2013 7:20 AM (GMT 0)
tonesg,

First of all i want to thank you for the gentle spirit with which you have addressed me. i really appreciate it.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. No 2 people are identical, and I may not exactly state something the same with someone with a similar opinion on the matter. I think that logically because of the synergistic relationship between body, mind, and spirit, that the association should be looked into as a routine part of medical care. My opinion is that a person who has been sick for years almost always has some sort of emotional component to their illness. Are they depressed, hopeless, bitter, etc. Prolonged negative emotions have serious biochemical, hormonal, and immunological ramifications.

Now, in regard to the fatal flaw, let's take a different approach by changing the terminology. Let's use "Achillees Heel" from Greek mythology. I am assuming that you know that story. He was a Greek hero from the Trojan War, that had an impregnable body except for his heel. He was then wounded on the heel and then died.

Why did my 9 y.o. daughter get sick while I have not? I am 58 y.o. and am quite the outdoorsman. I have found engorged ticks many times on my body over the years. Did none of them carry lyme and coinfections? The reason for why my daughter got sick are found within her being, and not exterior to her being. Since her emotional/psychological component is a component to her being, why wouldn't her physician investigate to see whether they may an emotional component to her illness? I am not speaking proudly here, as life is always changing, and i could get sick tomorrow. I personally do not use absolutist language. I believe that there is often an emotional component to illness, and should always be checked out by a physician.

I don't believe that the role of the mind is the all-determining factor. As far as I know- nobody on earth has the mind power to start flapping their arms and will be able to fly just because their mind is insistent upon it. Likewise, a person that has been chronically ill with Lyme and coinfections will not be able to heal with a treatment that is actually doing more harm than good. I don't care how pristine his emotional/psychological history is.

The role that the mind plays is that it can be a major factor in becoming well- for better or for worse. I'm not saying that all chronically ill people with lyme are not getting better because they are harboring some undiagnosed emotional/psychological issue. I am saying that some of these people will not improve until their emotional component is dealt with.

As far as the practical aspect of resolving emotional/psychological issues are concerned- there are some. I am a Christian. Resolution of these issues, for me by necessity involve a vertical focus towards God, and a horizontal focus towards fellow man. When I am in harmony with the "others" I find my place, purpose, and self acceptance. In addition, God has gifted other people to be "wonderful counselors" to me. When I focus mainly on "self," therein is the problem.

If you read my post above, then you can see that my brother-in-law dealt with his emotions as he was being treated. It is important to know that the first things that my brother in law told me when we discussed the possibility of taking him to Kansas is that he was always the way that he is. He was raised to be fearful. The lead toxicity only made it worse. The emotional wounds were at the front of his consciousness, not the back. Many people are living with conscious emotional wounds. They just aren't sharing them. His doctor served as his "wonderful counselor." His doctor didn't force a contrived interpretation of what my brother-in-law had experienced upon him. He gave my brother-in-law time, and a kind listening ear in a safe non judgemental atmosphere, while he eliminated the physical manifestations of emotional trauma from my brother-in-laws body.

A good counselor does not have to be a professional. It is amazing what the offering of unconditional love and acceptance does to heal the wounds. A person of the most humble stature can be used as a healing instrument if he/she has been graced with the understanding from above. The advice from such a counselor is often free.

I have presented a picture of a counseling situation from a Christian/religious model. There are other valid perspectives as well. I will leave it to others to share their perspectives.

Don
Posted 3/12/2013 8:08 AM (GMT 0)
tonesg,

By the way, I admire the fact that you treated yourself and got better with the Vit. C/Sea Salt protocol along with other good things. I know that the salt may be risky for some people, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Another thing- I think that most lymies underestimate the Vit. C deficit that they have in their body. Its just my opinion.

Also I looked at your last post again, and i definitely agree with a lot of it. With regard to absolutism, then I agree with you. On the other hand, i believe that emotional scars are a part of every person, and should not be summarily dismissed as not pertaining to why someone is not getting better. I believe that in some cases that they could be the "fatal flaw" or "Achillees Heel" to prevent someone from healing. I guess that I might be perceived as middle of the road!

By the way, I like your perspective and reasoning when discussing these issues, even though we may not completely agree. I would like to encourage you to chime in here on the forum more frequently!

Don
Posted 3/12/2013 8:59 AM (GMT 0)
Tonesg,

I agree completely with Don on this:

The role that the mind plays is that it can be a major factor in becoming well- for better or for worse. I'm not saying that all chronically ill people with lyme are not getting better because they are harboring some undiagnosed emotional/psychological issue. I am saying that some of these people will not improve until their emotional component is dealt with.

about the practical aspect then...

I'm not getting any counseling at all, I once tried it many years ago, and the only thing the poor man (psychiatrist) said was 'your situation is so complicated and so hard... The only thing I can reassure you on is that there's no chemical source for you feeling down, it's very normal that you feel the way you feel. I see no reason why I would prescribe you antidepressants.' That was enough for me...


BUT: I have the greatest of chances of meeting the right people at the right time. Unexpected encounters with very wise people that are so open hearted and ready to share their wisdom and experiences, giving me great practical advise, or a familymember of a friend that is a Reiki Master. There's also a friend of my husband, and a great meditation teacher, and the very few friends that really listen to me when I'm not doing well.

I try to see the value of these people around me, and take all the advise I can, work with it - they don't mind at all that I'm 'using' them, cause I'm not abusing them, they do it with great pleasure.

I need to admit that I'm lucky on that point, but I also feel that me being conscious about it plays a great role.

Marie

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