Does Babesia have a cyst form? If not, why is it difficult to treat?

If someone is on antimalarials + CSA tincture (crypto, sida a., artemisinin), among other things, and they stay on this for 5 months, then shouldn't babesia be guaranteed to clear? The life cycle of a red blood cell is only 4 months, so this treatment should get rid of it?

With this line of thinking, it should not be possible to have Babesia relapse either..

UNLESS - babesia has a cyst form just like the lyme spirochette. Is this true? Again, it doesn't make sense to me since it is not a spirochette (just a protozoa).

Any advice is welcome here :)

For what it's worth, a former ILADS president told me that the babesia parasite is much larger than bacteria such as the lyme spirochete ... and when the babesia parasite is destroyed, the fragments and debris collect and can be more difficult to clear ... This causes a state of thickened blood - basically, a log jam ...

That makes some sense

And this goes along with what Lyme Pickle said in regards to clotting etc

One thing I am cautious about is the existence or validity of FL1953

Hopefully someone here can relate some personal experience with tests, etc ...

FL1953 is the parasite that was "discovered" by Stephen Fry of Fry Labs ( I hope that it is OK that I mention him by name ) .... Fry claims that he knew about this parasite for about 10 years before making it public ( I have no idea why ), and not so coincidently his lab is the only one to be able to test for it ...

Apologies in advance if I am sounding overly critical of Fry and his mystery parasite, but from time to time certain doctors or researchers claim that they have found the missing piece to all of this, only to come up with something entirely different a year or two later ...

Would love to hear if anyone has actually been diagnosed with confirming blood tests for FL1953 and subsequently recovered with treatment ....... Not simply "My doc suspects it"

I'm having an awful time with it. I get really tired, and then I get scorching hot sweats at night. Then I get stinky. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Margaret

I tested positive five times on blood tests for babesia microti ... both on MDL antibody tests and Igenex FISH tests ... since then, I have repeated come back negative including the Igenex tests again ..

But I still have bad symptoms, and I don't know if it is babesia ...

I tried Mepron 3 different times, and I never felt improvement on it ... my final attempt w/ Mepron was Oct 2010 thru Feb 2011 and after 4 1/2 months, I felt as if I was going to die from the pain and symptoms ...

I never got red lines or red streaks while on Mepron, however, I have gotten the red lines and streaks using Samento, Zhang's artemisiae/allicin combo, colloidal silver, zinc, Biltricide and bee venom, rifampin, and trying different methods of detox like the mini trampoline and the IR sauna ...

I even found some red streaks ( what is thought to be bartonella ) after a brisk 3 mile walk one night ...

I am currently trying to figure this all out ... I obviously have trouble detoxing and getting this stuff out ... I can get to a point where I see red streaks coming out, but it gets so bad I feel that backing off is the only way to stay out of the ER - I can take physical pain, however, the feelings of being poisoned and truly frightening disconnection and irritability are not something to try to push thru for weeks on end ...

If there is congestion in the blood and lymph, and the healthy flow is compromised, it seems logical that this would a) create a breeding ground for a very small population of parasites or bacteria and b) limit the amount of remedy that can get in, and, the amount of toxins that can get out ...

This is how I think babesia becomes a chronic condition - so even if we take the remedies for a year, if they cannot get to where the microbes are, the symptoms will continue ... It makes sense to back off treatment because when it gets really bad, it just feels like toxins upon toxins and digging a hole that could take weeks to climb out of just to get back to where I was ...

Here is another thought:

Parasites will cause cysts - not "cysts" as in the cystic form where they singularly ball up for protection, but actual cysts similar to a Baker's Cyst or granuloma ... and a cyst or granuloma is usually a bunch of microbes surrounded by dysregulated immune cells - and this will cause a constant inflammatory process wherever the cyst is located ...

So I guess the answer is that depending on how the course of treatment progresses and what happens in the immune system, babesia could take a long time to eradicate ...

But is it babesia that is causing your symptom ?? ... With me, I cannot be sure ... maybe certain other strains of parasites or bacteria will react to what is thought of as babesia treatment, and when there is a reaction, we think it IS babesia, when it is not ...

wow ...

I never thought I would be sitting here on a Friday night writing about darn parasites :)

Babesia issues hit me close to home so I'll tell you what I know. Mepron/Azithromicn for 4 months made me feel like a million dollars but did not rid me of the parasites. Six months of cryptolepis/artemisia made me feel like a million dollars but did not rid me of the parasites and I could still find them in blood smears. They most certainly down regulate the immune response and accumulate metals.

Green tea, coconuts, black walnuts, vanilla, wine, there are many foods that decrease their numbers(or kill the merozoite stage). Like mentioned before, a thickening of the blood and a decrease in the methylation pathways cause side effects and problems when this happens.

Mepron is a nathoquinone derivative and it is effective in killing the parasites. It does have limitations. Only 1% of the Mepron dose is absorbed into the blood stream. Of that 1%, it is 99% bound to albumin. That means that only 1% of 1% is actually used to kill parasites. It does not cross the blood brain barrier so none of the parasites located in the hypothalamus are affected. So for disseminated disease, Mepron is not curative. I feel that Mepron can not get to all of the parasites to kill them.

My course of action is to correct my body's imbalances and deficits and to begin a dietary strategy of eating foods detrimental to the parasite. I attempted this before without supplementing my deficits and it was disastrous. I learned my lesson because as the parasites died and the polyphenols eliminated my methyltransferases, it shut down almost all of my methylation pathways. That was not a good thing. lol

Since wine does cross the blood brain barrier but also decreases GI flora, I'll be rotating 4 or 5 different probiotics daily. I'll keep the wine down to 4 ounces a day (a good thing since I hate wine.)

I can't give you an answer where to read about the foods. I had 11 quarters of chemistry in college and one of those courses was Drug Analysis. It was basically an application of organic chemistry as it pertains to bioavailability. Medicinal Chemistry was another good course. Look at Atovaquone's chemical structure and then look at the napthoquinone derivatives' chemical structures. Some will cleave a bond at one point or another and the byproducts plus the parent molecule remain. I believe it is the polyphenol structure of the napthoquinones that is either plasmodiostatic or plasmodiocidal. If you look at the catechin containing foods, (like green tea), it's a xanthine derivative (which is a polyphenol). There are many studies on catechins reducing protozoan growth. The problem is that xanthines or catechins decrease methyltransferases.

Go to Scholar Google and type in catechin and plasmodium or protozoan. That may get you some hits.

As for herxing, IMO, a herx is just an overloading of the methylation pathway. If your pathway isn't blocked, you won't herx. If you don't want to herx, don't eat. A fasting system has all of it's resources to utilize in the removal of toxic cellular debris from dead pathogens. If you eat, then you split your resources between eliminating the food and the pathogenic debris. The cytochrome P450 system is a form of the methylation pathway.

Here is a link to an article showing that green tea is helpful in treating Babesia to help back up what Georgia Hunter is saying:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20025823

Although I do have to disagree with Georgia Hunter on the not eating to avoid herxing. Eating isn't the only way that we accumulate toxins. The treatments that we use (abx & herbal/natural) alone can overwhelm the detoxing pathways, especially if they are already compromised.

so interesting to me as i am currently treating babesia. Negative for MTHFR but swear if i did not eat i would not be as sick! and i eat a diet free of gluten, soy, corn, tomato, dairy, nitrates, msg but food still makes things worse.

Georgia Hunter - when you say foods that starve the parasites like Babesia, what exactly are those? I don't know what diet to follow to kill this protozoa

Strategy92 said...
Georgia Hunter - when you say foods that starve the parasites like Babesia, what exactly are those? I don't know what diet to follow to kill this protozoa

https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3081528

I'm reducing my metals now, then I'll go after the parasites. I'm of the opinion that the die off floods the pathways with cellular debris and metals and this overwhelmed my system. If I reduce the metals now, maybe I won't get bogged down with just the cellular debris.

WWJD20, that's great that the moringa will chelate the metals. I just realized from your message that it includes cilantro, which moves metals, too. How are you doing with those doses of cilantro? I used to make a cashew humus with a lot of cilantro and garlic. It was delicious, but I got a headache that made me think my head was going to explode. I still don't know if I'll do the cilantro, but at least the moringa will cover a lot of bases. I especially like that it has so much nutrition because I have a hard time finding greens that don't have some plant chemical that bothers me. Nettles and chlorella are fine, but the brassica vegetables and high oxalates really bother me.

Thanks for breaking down the lists according to order, it's much easier when you see it in such a concise form.

WWJD20, the cashew humus was delicious:)  I was going to ask you if you herxed at all on the Synergy Protocol.  Anything besides headaches? 

Georgia Hunter, were you using the Pectrasol C when you got the metal build up, too?

No, I haven't tried Diamine Oxidase.  I was using quercetin, but I now since I started dealing with the Lyme the histamine issues have reduced.  Well, except for terrible itching in my spine at times.  I do still take an aspirin dissolved with baking soda for more than one reason, and that's supposed to help with histamine issues.