Break the Cycle

I probably think a little differently than most, but here are my thoughts. I don't feel that Borrelia, Babesia, or any of the other pathogens are our main concern. Here is my reasoning. These pathogens only goal is to survive and reproduce. If they make their hosts die, they don't reproduce so they certainly don't want to kill us. Now if they make us sick and our immune system gets decreased, they could reproduce in greater numbers without the constant onslaught of our immune response. It seems they have evolved over time to suppress our immune response and perhaps the toxic world we now live in is contributing to that. If the pathogens can sequester metals like some of the literature indicates, then the metals could be suppressing our immune response and helping the pathogens survive. Get rid of the metals and decrease pathogenic replication and thus decrease toxic cellular debris released upon the pathogen's death. It's like a huge cycle of negative effects that our bodies are spinning in and we can't get the cycle to spin in the right direction.

I feel many of us that aren't getting well is because there are some many negative pathogens due to elevated metals, candida, some genetic deficiencies, as well as a deficiency of proper GI bacteria. We're eating food that isn't good for us when we think we are eating good food. I see the largest hurdle to overcome when having poor health is finances. It's expensive to eat correctly and it's expensive to buy the needed supplements, see the right physicians, and get the proper treatment. So if you can't afford to buy all the supplements, antibiotics, and see the best physicians, work on eliminating the metals. It's the least expensive and IMO, the best bang for your buck. Read, read, read, knowledge and body awareness will help you more than anything. Get rid of those metals!

I feel differently. I felt perfectly fine and was 100% healthy before Lyme disease and hadn't even got sick or caught he flu since like 2009. I got infected with Borrelia, Bartonella, and mycoplasma.

After treating the infection and knocking it down about 99% I feel about 99% better. I strongly believe it is the infections fault

Also I have no mold issues. The only other issue I know about is that I have heavy metal poisoning.

I agree that there's more to Lyme and it's coinfections, an all other bacteria and viral infections than simply contracting a pathogen.

One can be born with a copper/zinc imbalance which would make one more susceptible to infections. One can also be born with an infection.

Even if you're not born totally toxic, you may be vulnerable to the damage that vaccinations cause. In susceptible people, vaccinations can shift the immune system balance, making one more susceptible to infections.

All types of stress can cause liver damage, which can mess up methylation, which can cause all types of issues including deficiency of glutathione; that can make one more susceptible to Lyme or other pathogen.

Fake foods can cause fatty liver which can cause all type of issues, including Vitamin D and other fat soluble vitamin deficiencies, wreaking havoc to the immune system.

Heavy metals for sure set up a predisposition to acquiring chronic pathogens. Some bacteria that we consider pathogens are actually doing us a favor by enveloping the metals, as metals are more toxic to the body than say for instance, candida albicans.

I'm sure the list could go on. With the rise in incidence of reactivation of Lyme that seemed to be in remission that I have been seeing, I am wondering if there is something new in our environment that we aren't aware of.

I agree with Violeta on this one. Our immune system must be down for one reason or another in order for us to get sick. If it is up and running it will defend the body like it should.

I think our systems are messed up from poor diets and poor food quality, allowing the infections to get a stronger hold. There are so many chemicals used in food production and in yards, even in clothing and upholstery, etc. That's a lot of foreign stuff for our bodies to contend with.

It's also a stressful world we live in, which can weaken ones immune system.

Then throw in lack of exercise on top of it all. There has recently been more talk about the ill effects of sitting too much, which many Lyme patients do since they don't have the energy to move much.

Graden Peace totally agree. One of the things Spoaugle test for is organic solvents. There were people there with horrid benzene and toluene levels. He also talked about all the chemicals he does not test for but they still harm our bodies. There have been 81,000 chemical manufactured in the US and we are trying to battle this chemical onslaught!

I'm not surprised. It's good they test for it.

I forgot to mention the GMOs too. Who wants to eat roundup ready food?? There are just so many things assaulting our health. The damage from a lot of things doesn't show up right away, so that makes it easy for people making and/or selling these products to argue that it isn't doing any harm and so many people trust what they say.

There are just too many to remember!

The issues and importance of metals goes beyond the non-essential toxic type ie. mercury . . . The balance of zinc and copper, for example, it critical to so many functions with in body and in relation to the immune system.

Zinc and copper are metals, but we need them in the correct amounts - they are essential . Both are critical for white blood cell development and immune function, and copper, for example, is very important to the regulation of histamine - and histamine is a major contributor to the inflammatory response ..

I am trying to figure all this out - it has been in the forefront of my thinking recently mainly because I have tested low in zinc ( blood tests, and the zinc challenge orally ) but when I took a small amount of zinc for a few days, all hell broke loose symptom-wise, and I began getting what is referred to as bartonella-type skin markings - red streaky lines and dots ...

Perhaps the zinc reacted with other metals - I have read that copper can accumulate in areas where infection has been ... Perhaps the zinc mobilized stored copper in some very sensitive areas - or maybe the zinc simply changed the balance of all the metals in my system .... I don't know at this point ...

The issue with metals is a big one, both the toxic non essential metals and the balance of the essential mineral metals

I have read articles about the relationship between Bb with zinc and manganese, and it looks as if Borrelia actually uses them. I can't totally understand the articles, but you can find them by googling those words.

I found one rewrite of a scholarly article that made it much easier to understand, I'll look for it.

I can't find anything about Bartonella, which is specifically what you're referring to, Tano.

Zinc is used along with carnosine for relief from h pylori, and there are even testimonials that it cures it. H pylori attachment to the epithelial cells of the stomach is mediated by copper, so the zinc in the zinc carnosine must displace the copper and the carnosine is a known handler of the copper. The copper in the lining of the stomach was of course not properly placed there, and I have seen papers that suggest that taking an antibiotic can cause copper to be left behind, which would be like building a home for a gram negative bacteria. Copper kills some bacteria, gram positives.

I understand that this info doesn't clear things up:)

It's load vs capacity period end of story. It's not one thing, it's everything, the body can only take so much. Decrease the toxic load overall and allow the body to find homeostasis.

I don't just apply this to lyme. Load vs capacity is a health medical based school of thought, it's scientific. I'm a nurse and I've always believed this well before I knew I had lyme. We need to decrease any toxic load where we can. Wether it's drinking from BPA free plastics because BPA disrupted endocrine function, or not overdoing fluoride, or eating a clean diet. Everything in moderation and for those with genetic predispositions we need to extra careful. It's not just metal and it's not just mold and it isnt just both.

@Maine76, do you have anything special that you do for mold?

@Georgia Hunter, Zn and Manganese are low in those with Lyme because the Borrelia use them. If you take them in a supplement, wouldn't that cause an environment for them to thrive in? I can link studies that show that, but links need to be approved. I think you have to just deal with the bacteria and eat food with adequate protein, zinc, and manganese. Do you have Lyme? In you message when you said, "You Lyme sufferers" makes it sound as if you don't have Lyme.