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Bartonella treatment that has worked for you

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Posted 8/15/2014 4:37 PM (GMT 0)
I am suspecting I have bartonella as a co. I'm hoping Dr. C. will be able to figure it out for me....

So, control freak that I am...I am wanting to have some input in the decision making - if he diagnoses bart and prescribes something to treat it.
Anyone who has succesfully treated bart - what did you use? I am looking at both abx and herbals.
I'm thinking if given the option, i may do the herbal route.
Posted 8/15/2014 5:26 PM (GMT 0)
While there are several herbal approaches, and as always different things do work for different people, from what I've read from several LLMD/NDs and what my own team of LLMD/ND are doing, the new front-line herbal approach to Bartonella treatment is Byron White's A-Bart. If you do a web search on that, I've found the info on the Gordon Medical web site to be the most thorough.

According to Dr. R in Seattle, A-Bart is the only herbal he will mess around with for Bartonella treatment (my own LLND started me on that and it worked GREAT for 5 months, then I became over-sensitive to it...it is STRONG!...and she backed me off onto a formula called MC-BAR1, knowing that it was not going to be a cure but that it could at least help keep the Bart from going haywire while I got my system on more stable ground to be able to handle A-Bart again), and he sees it as being effective in 50% of cases. For abx, the go-to seems to be Rifampin or Bactrim, and in his case management those have been successful in 90 to 95% of patients.

By the way, in my own personal case, while the herbal approach helped me make huge gains for 5 months, after the next 5 miserable months both my LLND and LLMD agreed it was time to start abx.

Anyhow, good luck. Hope the herbals will work for you!
Posted 8/15/2014 5:47 PM (GMT 0)
I am very very frustrated with bartonella treatment. I thought it was gone and stopped treating it and it came right back! I am very upset about this. I did 1 month of rifampin/minocycline and 3 and a half months of bactrim/minocycline. My bart should be done.

Next up I'm doing Dr. H's method of using gemifloxacin, that is the #1 antibiotic for bart, only the fluoroquinolones are bacteriacidal for bartonella. I'm going to pulse it for 5 days on 5 days off for 2 months using the alpha lipoic acid, curcumin, and magnesium to prevent tendon and nerve damage. I just had enough of this disease.

But in the meantime until I attempt that I am going to try Buhners bartonella protocol. I plan on ordering the herbs for this on the weekend.

I tried the A-bart, and it was okay for the time being. I did it for a month, but it obviously it didn't get rid of the bartonella.
Posted 8/15/2014 10:30 PM (GMT 0)
The only herb I used for my Bart infection was Houttuynia. This doesn't work for everyone, but it is an herb that is in many Bart herbal treatments now.
Posted 8/15/2014 10:56 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks everyone!

If i go herbal, not sure to do Buhner's, Cowden, or Byron White. I did Buhner's for awhile for Lyme prior to abx (but bought the herbs from my local health food store)...so I may stick with that protocol - but this time I will purchase the ones Buhner recommends.

Lymepickle: I read somewhere you should supplement with magnesium for a couple weeks prior to starting to prevent the tendon damage.
Posted 8/16/2014 12:31 AM (GMT 0)

LymePickle said...
I am very very frustrated with bartonella treatment. I thought it was gone and stopped treating it and it came right back! I am very upset about this. I did 1 month of rifampin/minocycline and 3 and a half months of bactrim/minocycline. My bart should be done.

I have heard from most LLMDs that bart should be treated for at least 6months.
Posted 8/16/2014 1:38 AM (GMT 0)
skBM - Oh yes... My LLMD said 4-6 months.  I had no symptoms and was at 4 months.  I learned the hard way.  Now my treatment got extended to 10 Months! 

Girlie - I now decided I'm going to try the Buhner herbs instead.  I have been on antibiotics for close to 9 months now.  I keep changing my mind on this but I should at least try his protocol before taking the risky antibiotic.  I read in Buhners book, if you do the full bartonella protocol you can treat it in just 1 month!  But there are sooo many herbs to take.

My body is just burning now... : (  I don't know if it's because of bartonella, the antibiotics, or what.  I guess there are no short cuts in treating these illnesses.  I should just accept that. 

Posted 8/16/2014 5:30 AM (GMT 0)
If I had to take 100 herbs for just one month, I would do it.

But as much as I respect and trust Buhner, I'm highly skeptical of 1 month treatment.

Also, I have tried the bartonella protocol for a solid month, and it barely seemed to help me. I will admit that I seem to be a strange case.
Posted 8/16/2014 10:34 AM (GMT 0)
Lymepickle's comment "fluoroquinolones are bacteriacidal for bartonella" —this sucks for me because I have an allergy to fluoroquinolones. Or maybe I have a reaction to it because of my Bart???

I've been taking A-Bart for the past month, along w/ AL-Complex (lyme) and A-Bab (for babesia). I had some increased sx but they were the babesia sx, I think. I'd been on AL-Complex for about 3 months then added in A-Bart and A-Bab last month. But I went from one drop a day to 25 drops 2x/day for the A-Bart & A-Bab in about 2 wks and didn't experience much reaction. So—I don't know if that means they were working, or not working. I emailed LLMD on Monday asking if I was ready to start abx for the lyme (been on AL-Complex for 3 mos. now) and she hasn't responded yet.

-p
Posted 8/16/2014 2:30 PM (GMT 0)
My daughter did 2 years of abx treatment for bart, improved by about 80% but was still symptomatic when we weaned. We (both my daughter and I) did 1 year of Buhner's full bart protocol (at low 1/4 dosage) which provided improvement to about 95%. It wasn't until we added Buhner's babesia protocol (also at low 1/4 dosage), along with 1 drop 3x daily cilantro tincture and started diatomaceous earth, that she has now made it to 99-100%. Recovered from bartonella symptoms, PANS/PANDAS symptoms, Tourette's symptoms, Asperger symptoms.

We didn't know she was also dealing with babesia. All testing had been negative.
Posted 8/16/2014 3:58 PM (GMT 0)
I wonder if I got babesia too? Can we get babesia from tears or just Lyme and bartonella?

Maybe I need to treat for that too.
Posted 8/16/2014 5:25 PM (GMT 0)
Oh Lymepickle! I can feel the desperation you're experiencing. I can totally relate - you're a take charge kind of person and want desperately to "fix" yourself. I (as most of us on here do) can totally relate. I have been the "fixer" in my family. Now it's my turn to be fixed and I'm not making progress fast enough. I think you're like me - don't want to put yourself totally in the doc's hands. I get it.

My advice to you: talk to you LLMD or LLND and see what they say.
Remember: You were at 95% - you WILL get there again. Try not to worry about it. (I know - easier said than done).
I will be seeing Dr. C soon and I will do my best to let him treat me...and not let myself get in the way....lol.
Posted 8/16/2014 5:49 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie -- Good plan. I am flying to see Dr. C on Wednesday!

I haven't taken my dose of antibiotics today and I feel pretty good actually. A lot less pain and burning. Actually close to none at all? I think it's the biaxin that is causing me to burn.

People say the Biaxin + Plaquenil is a highly effective combination. Maybe it's because of that? I am going to pulse plaquenil every second day 200mg because I read from a German Doctor that this is still effective.

I know I need to follow my Doctor's orders... and not multiple Doctors orders and my own orders too! lol.

Anyways, tomorrow... (I am working 6 12 hour days) so I can finally rest tomorrow, I am going to order the Buhner Bartonella herbs, and I am going to make an excel spreadsheet that I will LOG EVERY SINGLE DAY! It is going to have dates, so I will keep track of every day, exactly what I used on that date for abx/herbal anti-microbials, what I use for body support, and what my symptoms are for that day. I will also keep a symptom list of every symptom I experienced and enter them in indivdually on a scale of 1-10. I want to see the cycles and patters of this disease in response to how I treat.

I am flying all the way to see Dr. C on Wednesday, then I fly back the same day lol! I am going to run through everything I am doing with him. At this point he thinks I am better off cutting back on abx and supporting my immune system to gain the upper hand. (this is the point where too much knowledge gives you what ifs and buts about treatment because I know the immune system of the brain is not very effective against lyme germs).
Posted 8/16/2014 5:59 PM (GMT 0)
LymePickle - if you are interested I can give you a copy of the Excel spreadsheet/bar chart we use for daily symptom vs protocol documentation to use as a template.
Posted 8/16/2014 8:49 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Rowingmom. Yes if you can send me your spreadsheet to my e-mail that would be great! I was thinking of linking each symptom to it's own line graph.

I would like to see how you did yours, and yes it would give me some good ideas. Thanks so much for offering!
Posted 8/16/2014 9:00 PM (GMT 0)

LymePickle said...
I wonder if I got babesia too? Can we get babesia from tears or just Lyme and bartonella?

Do you have evidence that Bartonella can be passed through tears???
Posted 8/16/2014 9:31 PM (GMT 0)
I gave up tracking my days symptoms. I have had too many that change throughout the day.
So, I couldn't even do an a.m., afternoon, evening set of symptoms, because at 10:00 a.m. my left arm pain may be 4/10, and 10:15 it's a 1/10, and 11:00 it's a 3/10.
and that would just be one symptom for the morning.

I have a "master symptom list" that has all of the symptoms I have or have had. and I've put an X by the ones I no longer have and wrote "diminished" beside the ones that have gotten somewhat better. Hopefully, I'll get some more "X" s on some symptoms.
It works for me and my symptoms.
Posted 8/16/2014 11:53 PM (GMT 0)
Traveller, I got it from a tear, I thought you knew that already. If I didn't get it from a tear, then I got it from hugging someone (just touching their clothing) and getting their germs on my hands and then accidently to myself. (i hugged her twice) How can I possibly prove something like that? I already experienced it first hand so I am living proof, I can give my word on this from my experience. That is the only proof I have. Looking at the biology of bartonella and what I read it is an aerobic bacteria so it is not harmed by oxygen at all. It is fastidiuous (sp?) in the sense that yes it needs a host to live in for nutrients and to live etc. However just because it is outside the host does not mean it dies right away. Buhners book says it can live outside insdie flea feces for 7-10 days. It infects salivary ducts and so yes I believe it does infect tear ducts too. My LLND said he DID treat one other patient who reported a casual (that is not intimiate contact) contact infection. That other patient caught exactly what I got, Lyme and Bartonella. Honestly how often do you get exposed to someone else's tear though? Probably not very often, and to be honest I think this is the only time in my life I have ever been exposed to someones tear, it happened to be someone with Lyme disease and so I was very unlucky. I doubt babesia would be transmitted like this as it stays in the blood and is too big. But who knows?
Posted 8/17/2014 12:19 PM (GMT 0)
LymePickle,
I know that's how you say you got the Lyme disease, but I had not seen you say that's how you got Bartonella before this. I do have to say that I don't read every single thread on this forum, so I could have easily missed it.

And people get mosquito bites all the time without knowing about it, unless they get big welts from them - so there are still other possibilities- and it makes more sense than from casual contact -especially since you believe you have more than just Lyme disease now.

But like I said, this is the first time I've seen you say that you believe Bartonella was passed as well.
Posted 8/17/2014 1:13 PM (GMT 0)
Rowingmom,
I would love it if you emailed me that spreadsheet too! Thank


Also, just curious how everyone's Bart was diagnosed?
Thanks guys
Posted 8/18/2014 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
My Bart was diagnosed clinically - by symptoms only. I never tested positive for it, but showed almost all the symptoms.
Posted 8/18/2014 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Bart also diagnosed clinically. Test returned negative, but when going through my (long) history of symptoms, while describing one specific flare my LLMD *AND* LLND said, "Wow, you've basically just described textbook Bartonella!" So...we treat, as we should!
Posted 6/9/2016 7:49 PM (GMT 0)
bumping bart
Posted 6/10/2016 12:15 AM (GMT 0)
Wow - an old thread blast from the past.

I had severe GI attacks while on A-Bart and it took me a year to link the two. So I stopped the A-Bart and I'm not on vancomycin IV and doing pretty well. Been on full doses about a month now - GI is healing well, no more attacks, leg muscle pain and spasms mostly gone, shin pain and bone pain is mostly gone. I have bart lesions that are still hanging around.

I was off it for 2 days with IV port problems and boy did I herx... HORRIBLE psycho-neuro craziness. Insanity. So so much better now.

Hope this is helpful.

-p
Posted 6/10/2016 12:20 AM (GMT 0)
"...and I'm not on vancomycin IV and doing pretty well. "

P - I think you meant to say "I'm NOW on vancomycin IV" ?


(not trying to be editor...lol)
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