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Posted 1/14/2015 7:48 PM (GMT 0)
I have my LLND appt tomorrow. We will be discussing what to do next with my treatment.

I can't decide whether or not to take Rifampin and try to knock off Bart.

I have been holding off because I know it's hard on the liver... But sometimes I think "what if that's all I need? Maybe I could be well in a few months if I just take Rifampin"

I go back and forth on this one. I know only I can decide - but what do you think?

I have bart symptoms - never tested for it -
I have had two lab tests (out of four) show slightly high ALT (liver).

Just can't seem to make the decision but what if this is all that is holding me back,

I'm thinking maybe giving the Buhners herbs some time first and see how I respond over the next two months.... Then if Im not seeing anything ... ie another herx or symptom improvement... Then bite the bullet with Rifampin???
Posted 1/14/2015 8:15 PM (GMT 0)
Wow, girlie, I could have actually written this post - I didn't quite realise that I am in the EXACT same position as you! I know we've chatted recently on my thread about my own treatment review, which is also tomorrow. Always completely stresses me out :-(. Rifampin and addressing possible Bart have been mentioned to me too, and I'm definitely thinking of raising it with my doc. Someone said rifampin/minocycline/tinidazole was a killer combo, so I may mention that one to my doc. Is rifampin hard on the liver? I have to watch my levels as I tend towards high bilirubin . . . I wonder if this would be a problem? Anyway, like I say, I am in the exact same position as you right now, so my thoughts are with you :-)
Posted 1/14/2015 8:19 PM (GMT 0)
Just remembered that someone else on my treatment review thread mentioned rifampin/minocycline/plaq (plaquenil?) as a good combo for hitting Bart . . .
Posted 1/15/2015 12:03 AM (GMT 0)
I think it is common to have slightly elevated liver enzymes when you are battling an infection such as lyme and going thru trestment. I did and it scared me to death and once I got thru treatment, the numbers evened out. Do you take milk thistle to support the liver?

If you don't feel comfortable, try the other methods first. When I got turned down by insurance for IV my LLMD said there are plenty of other options so don't hesitate to go a differnt route. Sometimes it's good to switch up anyways.
Posted 1/15/2015 3:21 AM (GMT 0)
I was on rifampin for four months and my liver enzymes actually improved while on it. I did feel pain in liver area and had my blood work done way too many times, convinced it was due to rifampin. Nope, it was probably a herx. Enzymes came back with better results each month. My bilirubin was high before rifampin and that too was better. I was fine on rifampin. I feel it helped a lot with muscle twitching and spasms. smilewinkgrin
Posted 1/15/2015 3:55 AM (GMT 0)
Flossie - Rifampin can be hard on the liver - but if it works and it means less time on antibiotics that aren't working - then maybe it's a wise choice?? I can stay on the lyme meds for another three months and then go on a Rifampin. ... Or maybe bite the bullet now. In the long term it could be better for the liver if it means healing sooner???
Tough decision to make

Springsjean - Yes Im on milk thistle - and you're right - the raised enzymes could be from the infection itself.

ela9050 - interesting that your liver function tests improved after Rifampin was added. I have slightly raised bilirubin levels - even before I had Lyme disease (Gilbert's syndrome)

I guess I could try the rifampin and see how I feel and just keep a close eye on the labs.

Is it true you turn orange? Tears and sweat? Yuk
Posted 1/15/2015 6:11 AM (GMT 0)
Hi Girlie, Ya, I remember my first few doses of rifampin… And I remember my liver aching! I seriously felt it in my liver, especially the first few days when starting it. But I think my liver adjusted after being on it for a week or so. And then I also remember the calming of my symptoms after the rifampin dose… ahhh… it was almost like a relaxing sedating drug to be honest. It was relaxing. The other issue I had with it was fatigue, but who knows maybe that went with the infections, or it could be that the liver is focusing on the drug rather than it's other duties. Oh and huge amounts of yeast on my reddish orange coloured stools! It almost looked like the feather fluff from my pillow.

I took milk thistle to help protect my liver, but I am also reading Silymarin is a great for liver protection from the toxic effects of rifampin working. I was also on the Meriva which I think helps overall for cellular protection.

There are other options Girlie if you don't like the Rifampin. Well I know you don't want to take the fluoroquinolones, but you can take Septra DS which works and crosses into the brain to get bart. It can be paired with clarithromycin (very slightly crosses into the brain). Rifampin by the way passes the blood brain barrier well. (bart somehow passes through as well)

The one thing though about going with the rifampin, I think it takes at least 6 months on it to treat bart well. I am reading about people who went on it for 18 months!!! But when they are done they are like that's it bart is DONE! lol . So I wouldn't go on it unless I am committed for at least 8 months. Again I'm on the fence, I might try bart only herbs for a month again.(but I thought it was gone for me 3 times already, and the first time treated 5 months straight!

Ugh… I think my Lyme is done, but bart is still with me. My immune system has it under control now where it's just a kind of minor issue (with the burner herbs, colostrum, transfer factors, and Immune support supplements I am taking), but I still know bart lingers for me.

I ate another sugar cookie today (co-worker offered me so I didn't want to be rude and refuse), and bam, instant hit of sugar fed the bart in my brain and i felt dizzy and I also had really bad foot pain while walking after. But then had a bart drink when I got home and it's back to no symptoms! LoL

I am contemplating asking for another rifampin treatment myself. Even though bart is more or less under control, I would just prefer it gone completely so I can once again enjoy a sugar cookie. I think I will pair it with Septra DS as that gets into the brain well. I would ask for the rifampin and zithromax combo but I don't feel azithromycin gets into the brain well. And rifampin needs to be paired to prevent resistance so my guess is something that passes into the brain to prevent resistance there. (best options to pair with rifampin according to our LLMD from down south is either minocycline, septra DS, or azithromycin), any other pairings with rifampin like clarithromycin or doxycycline actually lowers the amount of those drugs in our bodies as the liver goes into overdrive. I am getting minocyclined out… and long term mino can hurt the thyroid (which i feel after I take it now).
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