rowingmom and all familiar with Buhner's protocol:

Buhner says that Astragalus stimulates the part of the immune system that could result in autoimmune issues.

I have decided not to use it.

From what I've read on astragalus is that it shouldn't be used in late or chronic Lyme because it stimulates the parts of the immune system that attack Lyme, and in chronic Lyme it can lead to things going really haywire and into an autoimmune situation because the Lyme bacteria is still hiding out in too many places in the body.

With that said, Buhner also recognizes that there are a few chronic Lyme patients out there that can use astragalus successfully, but cautions all to watch for a reaction to it.

I am using it with my re-infection and Buhner also says that it can be used to help ward off another Lyme infection. So I'm hopeful and will remain on it once I stop all other treatment.

Well, considering that mosquitoes and other insects carry these infections, I would say that one surely doesn't have to be in a wooded area to get infected!

The question about what is chronic Lyme is the 6 million dollar question - the infection can go chronic in a matter of days for some people, or stay more localized for long periods in others.

Like you have already determined, I would try it, but watch very closely for "too much of a herx" and pull whoever is using it off of it should that happen.

Keep up the good work!!!

LOL! Likely what my hubby's reaction was!! LOL! He asked "are you sure you need all of that?" Fortunately, when I said yes and that it would last me about 6 months, he just said "Oh." LOL!!

Simela - do you make your own liposomal vit C or do you purchase it pre-made? I have been contemplating adding it to our protocol instead of the powdered version. I have read that the home made is not actually a liposome but just an emulsion.

Buhner likes propolis as well, although doesn't include it in any of the lyme/coinfection protocols. Another thing I need to look in to.

moon: never used zeolite, so I can't comment on that. Maybe someone else can help. Clays contain sillica but also aluminum, so for now, I will not use them.

Rowingmom:
this is the propolis I use after many many many hours of research. The tincture tastes terrible people say--including my sister, so it has to be mixed with honey. You may be ok with it, because you take a lot of bad tasting stuff, lol But people also say that it is hard to mix it with honey because it is sticky and hard to get off the spoon. So I bought it mixed in because i don't want my kids to fuss over it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00028NCTG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

totally worth it, it is anti-inflamatory AND a natural abx, cheap so it's worth a try. Dr K talks about it. So I thought I should give it a try. My kids aren't trilled with the taste (although I think it tastes great) but they do take it because it is a super duper anti-inflamatory and it does work, the pain goes away. Even if it would be psychological for them, it tried it myself and it works for me, so I have to conclude it indeed works! My pain is bearable without meds, comes and goes, I think from Bartonella, But I have a high level of tolerance for pain because I have herniated disks and that is terrible pain, so compared to other people I tolerate pain much better. The propolis makes my pain level almost completely gone I would say by 98-100%. I haven't have back pain since I take it either, and I don't take anything else for pain.

I don't know what people say about lipo vit C but if you can drink it without getting diarrhea from it, it is encapsulated, therefore liposomal. If you get diarrhea from it, then you do something wrong and it is not liposomal. that is the test. mercola and dr K say so. not me :) You can mix it with different things. Some people mix it even with coconut oil. I mix it with sunflower non-gmo lecithin. I can take up to 3 grams per day (I haven't tried more). My mom is in love with it! It's super cheap to make it, I only use a little powder to make it, like 1 tablespoon and a little lecithin, about 1 tablespoon and it lasts for several days because you mix it with water (about 1.5 cups). and it will keep the colds away. I think I started to make it for a month and I tried it first, then I gave it to my older kids and husband, and no one got sick with colds or flu in here! That is the true test for me, lol Usually someone gets sick because there are a lot of kids at school sick. For my mom it truly does miracles and she doesn't want to be without it.

Post Edited (Simela1) : 1/27/2015 1:08:21 PM (GMT-7)

Trav:

Sorry to hear about your husband :( Yes, back pain is awful, much worse than pain caused from bacteria. But my back was ok when I started taking propolis, so I am not sure if it works for back pain. My back pain is weird, I can be fine for 4-6 months, and then really struggle for 1-2 months, like I can't even push the stroller. So, unfortunately, I can't vouch that propolis works for back pain, since my back was ok when I started it. Just want to make sure you are aware of it because I don't want you to spend money for it if it doesn't work. Maybe my back would have been fine even without the propolis because that is how it works sometimes for me--no pain for months! To see if it works for back pain, I would have to take it for a lot longer, so I can't vouch YET if it indeed works for back pain or not. It relieves however the sole pain and the pain in my hands and arms which I think are Bartonella related. How much bacteria it kills, I will never know, but as an inflammatory from the barto pain, it is super!

I hypothesis, which I probably will never be able to prove, is that if you mix it with honey, the bacteria comes to eat it because they like the honey and then it kills them because they also eat the propolis in the process. Time will tell!

Trav:

My pain that I started to get after my son got sick is as follows:
burning spots on my head that move around, then go away then come again
sore soles of my feet and top of feet pain, heel pain--all of it comes and goes and moves around. Sometimes I feel like an elephant stepped on my foot LOL
pains in my knees and ankles--again, they only last a few seconds and then they go away then they come back, some days worse than others
cramps in my hands and my legs and the worse are in my feet, when I have to walk around like I am wearing high heels LOL which I am not, because of my back I am afraid to do it, I'd probably trip and fall LOL
pain in my hands--especially my left hand--I feel like another elephant stepped on my hand and broke all of my bones--or maybe is the same elephant LOL

So some of my pain is arthritis-like pain, but I do not have arthritis. I only get the pain when the other symptoms return, so I have no doubt it is related to the tick-borne infections.
I do not know if it's as good as turmeric because I never tried turmeric, although I purchased some and I am waiting to get it in the mail--by the way, some people are buying the roots and growing it--when are you going to start that LOL?

Yes, It's very hard trying to figure out what to combine and what to avoid, that's why I have been very conservative in my approach. But after buying 30 Lb of herbs and still looking to buy others I don't know what I will start throwing at myself next.

I am happy with my self-designed protocol so far LOL

BTW the idea with the honey and the propolis mixed together came to me after a lecture of dr K. He uses an acid that bugs love as bate, so he believes that because they love food, just like us, they come to it, and then they are easier to kill. Who knows, maybe I am on to something, huh LOL

Hubby wasn't sure about turmeric, until he saw me refuse to give it up even when I was healed for those 2 years - then he got serious with it and now you can't take it away from him!! LOL!

I buy local honey - to help with allergies & yes, it really does work but it takes a bit of time - so I still intend on mixing it with honey, I just want to do two things at once with it. Hide the propolis and help my allergies!! Greedy, huh? LOL! I don't think I'll need the propolis for treating my infections, as I'm almost done with that again (!!! Woo hoo!!!!! ) but I'm incredibly interested in the anti inflammatory part of it.

Ha! yeah, I didn't have a whole lot of choice if I wanted to use herbs. No one knows what to do with me! Giggle!

Hubby is actually looking into getting his own bee hives!! LOL! But we would have to have Manuka trees to make manuka honey! So that's likely out of the question!! LOL!

Yes, I get raw local honey. It's helped me with my rag weed allergies, although it does take a bit of time to work.