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Posted 1/29/2015 12:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone,

it's been a while since i was here. I wanted to share with you my experience with supplements. I really wanted this to be a success story, but my symptoms came back... Anyway here's the whole story.

I started taking high amounts of Alicin tablets, lot's of detox supplements and some of other ones for immunity (vit c, carotenoids, vit b etc.). Only a few weeks in and i had around 5 days in a row without any symptoms, especially my head was completely the same as it used to be, no brain fog, clear thinking and so on. I thought well that means it'll get better from here. But then all of my symptoms came back and i felt desperate again. Another 3 weeks passed and i started feeling great again, for almost a whole month! I still had the occasional joint, muscle pain etc. But my thinking and energy was exactly like it used to be. I thought now i'll probably feel like this with some minor symptoms until they're all gone. But noo, it all came back again! Now it's been a week and it's not getting better, i'm also learning to drive right now and with a head like this it's not really helping.

My main worry is this normal while on treatment for the symptoms to come and go or was i just lucky for the them to dissappear for a longer period of time and the supplements didn't have anything to do with it? I can stand anything if i know i'm really getting better.

If anyone is interested what supplements and in what dosages i'm using let me know.
Posted 1/29/2015 3:15 PM (GMT 0)
You probably need to add some herbals or antibiotics to go after the bacteria more. Do you have a Lyme literate doctor (LLMD or LLND)? If not, I'd suggest you get one so they can do testing to see what infections you're dealing with besides Lyme and to see if you're lacking any nutrients, etc. Good nutrition does help a lot, as you've seen. Go ahead and list your supplements.
Posted 1/29/2015 7:47 PM (GMT 0)
The monthly cycle of symptoms that you describe is very typical for Lyme. You are only helping some of the symptoms with your supplements, not treating the infection.

Supplements alone will never clear an infection. You definitely must be on an anti-infective therapy of some sort, whether it's abx or herbals.
Posted 2/4/2015 9:18 AM (GMT 0)
Hello,

thank you for your responses. So Alicin isn't an anti infectant? And it won't help much to kill the spirochettes?
Here is what i'm using now:

Galric supplement - 12,6g of Alicin per day (3 tablets 2 x per day)

Betaguard (detoxing) - 3 tablets 2 times per day.
1 tablet includes:
Energy - 9 kJ (2,1 kcal)
Protein - 0,011 g
Carbohydrates - 0,392 g
Fat - 0,057
Beta-carotene - 1,2 mg
Alpha-carotene - 0,6 mg
Vitamin C - 20 mg
Vitamin E - 4 mg (TE*)
Riboflavin - 0,2 mg
Niacin - 2,7 mg
Vitamin B6 - 0,47 mg
Iodine - 20 mcg
Magnesium - 33,3 mg
Zinc - 3,3 mg
Selenium - 18,3 mcg
Chromium - 13,3 mcg
Lemon pectin - 3 mg
Yeasts - 3 mg

Carotenoid complex - 1 tablet 2 times per day
1 tablet includes:
β-carotene - 1.5 mg
α-carotene - 0.56 mg
Lycopene - 0.35 mg
Lutein - 0.14 mg

Kal - Mag - 3 tablets once per day
1 tablet includes:
Calcium - 150 mg
Magnesium - 75 mg
Vitamin D - 1 mcg

Super B - 1 tablet once per day
1 tablet includes:
Thiamine (as thiamine mononitrate and from yeast) - 15 mg
Riboflavin (as riboflavin and from yeast) - 15 mg
Niacin (as niacinamide and from yeast) - 100 mg
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride and from yeast) - 15 mg
Folic Acid - 0.4 mg
Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) - 15 mcg
Biotin - 0.2 mg
Pantothenic Acid (as calcium pantothenate and from yeast) - 30 mg
Inositol (as inositol and from soy lecithin) - 100 mg
Desiccated Liver - 100 mg
Choline (as choline bitartrate and from yeast) - 50 mg
Rutin - 20 mg

Formula IV - 1 tablet per day
1 tablet includes:
Vitamin A - 750 mcg
Pantothenic acid - 3,5 mg
Vitamin C - 45 mg
Folic acid - 100 mcg
Vitamin D - 3,75 mcg
Manganese - 2 mg
Vitamin E - 7,5 mg
Iron - 12,5 mg
Thiamine - 1 mg
Copper - 1 mg
Riboflavin 1 mg
Zinc - 10 mg
Vitamin B6 - 1,4 mg
Iodine - 112,5 mcg
Vitamin B12 - 2,25 mcg
Selenium - 12,5 mcg
Niacin 12,5 mg

I'm sorry this got so long, but i don't think it would have said anything if i posted only the names of them.
Posted 2/4/2015 9:50 AM (GMT 0)
Like the others had said, you MUST kill the bacteria. Vitamins are great, but they are used by the bacteria too, you may feel better because they give you more energy, BUT without the use of antibacterials/antibiotics, the bacteria will get stronger. You may end up creating a super bug or several kinds of super bugs that will be so much harder to kill.

You may increase your immunity but not fast enough as you are making the bacteria stronger. Vitamin C kills bacteria but I believe the dose that you show is too low.

I believe Niacin also kills bacteria, but not in low doses.

Any of your supplements taken in low doses, depending on how much you absorb, it won't produce a dramatic effect. I believe as Trav said, that you may experience a cycle where the bacteria either goes through a multiplication phase or it dies off (not sure which), that is why you feel so much worse at times.

Also, most garlic pills lose bio-viability of alicine quickly (I've heard a dr. saying within 2 weeks), so it is best to consume it raw, or there will be very little effect, if any--depending when it was manufactured and how long it took to get to you.

Supplements are good, but they have to be taken in addition to abx or herbal antibacterial remedies, not instead of them.

Best of luck!
Posted 2/4/2015 1:07 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you Simela for your response. I'd be glad to include some herbs as well, for example to try the Buhner protocol, but i just can't find any real success stories. That's why i haven't tried it yet. There's hundreds of people claiming that they HEARD someone got cured with Buhner's protocol for example but i have yet to hear from an actual person that it indeed helped.
Posted 2/4/2015 2:58 PM (GMT 0)
rowingmom has an amazing story.  Her daughter is doing amazingly well. I am also starting his protocol.  I got most of the herbs from Mountain Rose Herbs--check them out.  They are schedualed to come today.  I got his books too.  I got some alcohol and I will make my own tinctures.  Mountain Rose Herbs is recomanded by Buhner, so the herbs are "clean".  They are the least expensive I could find and have an amazing selection.   I got the rest from 1stChineseHerbs--also recommanded by Buhner. 

You don't have to do Buhner, you can try Cowden.  But please know that many of the herbs that Buhner is using are used by Dr. Klinghardt.  If you watch his videos on youtube by searching his name, you will see him talking about these herbs.  He successfully treated over 900 of the sickest patients including from outside US and including autistic children that had lyme.  He is an international figure.  So if you don't trust Buhner, you can follow his protocol.  He uses a company for his herbs that is pretty expensive, but you can buy your own products.

I hope this helps!  Best wishes!
Posted 2/4/2015 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
Keep looking, those people that have healed are just out there enjoying their life now. I'm one of the few that has chosen to stick around after healing to help out. Oh - and although I didn't use Buhner's to heal, I have used herbs to heal, so I know that they are more than potent enough.
Posted 2/5/2015 11:15 PM (GMT 0)
mindgames- i agree that if your approach is to KILL the bugs then you probably need more horsepower than what you are using.

On the other hand, killing the bugs is not the only approach that's available. In the case of our daughter (Heather) she initially used both types of ABX (conventional and natural), but still relapsed later. We then switched to an approach that optimized her immune system to do the killing of the bugs instead of the ABX. She has been healthy for 5 years.

She is a swimmer and has been exposed to a lot of mold. Unfortunately the mold caused some serious problems this past fall. We are now using the same approach to treat her. After 6 weeks of treatment so far, she is currently doing very well, and she is back in the pool.

You do have options!

Don
Posted 2/17/2015 8:44 AM (GMT 0)
Hello,

thank you heathersdad for your reply. I apologise for not replying sooner, i don't get notifications when someone writes here. Congratulations on your success with treatment, that sounds very encouraging. What exactly where you using then? So you stopped using antibiotics altogether (natural and conventional)?

Thank you so much for your help!
Posted 2/17/2015 10:59 AM (GMT 0)
mind games, if you use the "post reply" button to post your replies instead of the "quick reply" option, you can then opt to have email notifications when someone posts to the thread.
Posted 2/17/2015 9:03 PM (GMT 0)
You also have the option at the top of every thread to "subscribe" to a thread.
Posted 2/18/2015 8:03 AM (GMT 0)
Ok, thank you :)
Posted 3/18/2015 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
Hey everyone. It's been awhile since i last wrote. After lots of researching i decided to try out the core Lyme protocol. I found where to order the herbs and everything at reasonable prices. But i'm not sure if i need Astragalus (Astragalus membranaceus), since it says that it's not to be used for Chronic Lyme. Well i've been sick for a few years now, so i assume it's chronic. So logically i don't need it, right? Or does that mean something else?

Also, everyones advising to see a Lyme literate doctor. Unfortunately there's noone like that in my country. And there's no point in seeing someone else, since the tests now prove negative. So i'm only left with self treatment and you guys advising me on how to proceed. Thank you for your support people!
Posted 3/18/2015 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Don't order the astralagus. That's only for recent Lyme.

Where are you located?
Posted 3/18/2015 6:43 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Sarah! I live in Lithuania.
Posted 3/18/2015 7:12 PM (GMT 0)
Astragalus is good to take as a preventative once you are healed though!

And please do let us know how you are doing on the new protocol and if you have any questions!!
Posted 3/18/2015 9:49 PM (GMT 0)

Traveler said...
The monthly cycle of symptoms that you describe is very typical for Lyme. You are only helping some of the symptoms with your supplements, not treating the infection.

Supplements alone will never clear an infection. You definitely must be on an anti-infective therapy of some sort, whether it's abx or herbals.

I disagree with the absolute statement that supplements alone will never clear an infection. Everyone with Lyme Disease has a different milieu and should be treated accordingly. Some need antibiotics, some do not. After much study, I am leaning more towards not using antibiotics rather than to use them. Dr Klinghardt and Dr Rau have both used therapies that don't utilize anti-infective agents.

Here is an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT6An0jA8Vw
Posted 3/19/2015 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
I have no idea what they are doing overseas about these infections and don't try to keep up with that - but I can say that bacterial infections are very, very difficult to overcome without using any type of substance with antibacterial action.

It's much easier to use something with abx action, and causes much less suffering by the patient.
Posted 4/14/2015 11:54 AM (GMT 0)
Hello everyone,

i finally received my Buhner herbs. Not all of them, i'm still waiting for the Japenese Knotweed, but i got the Eleuthero and Cat's Claw. My questions would be about dosage. I saw the recommended dosage on his site and am planning to start with 1/4 of it. But is it best to start with one herb? Let's say 1 capsule x 3 times a day for like a week and then introduce another one at low dosage? Or should i increase the first herb until i'm at max dosage and then introduce the other one? What's your approach to this?

Also, i got the Eleuthero root in powdered capsuled form and i'm confused about the dosage. Buhner recommends taking 1tsp of tincture 2 times a day. 1tsp is around 5g. The capsules i got are 425mg, so does that mean i have to take 12 capsules 2 times per day? That seems like a lot :)

It would be great if you'd clear up my confusion!

Thank you so much for your help and have a bright and warm spring day.
Posted 4/14/2015 8:48 PM (GMT 0)
Not sure, but I bet others know :)
Posted 4/15/2015 6:44 PM (GMT 0)
Congratulations, Mindgames!! You're on your way!

Yes, it's best to start off with low doses and build your dose up slowly until you have reached the full dose or whatever you can tolerate. If I remember correctly, you have been quite ill, so you may need to start with an even lower dose. Start with just one dose a day for the first few days to see how you do.

And I don't know about the dosages for the Eleuthero, but if your amounts are right, then yes, you need to take that many of the pills - just be sure that you are figuring the amounts properly.
Posted 4/18/2015 6:50 AM (GMT 0)
Thank you Traveler! No, i haven't been extremely ill, compared to people who can't get out of bed. It was mostly my head, pressure, fog, mood swings, memory, concentration. I felt kinda numb, like i don't care for anything.

Suprisingly when i started taking the Cat's Claw my symptoms improved. I more or less feel myself right now. I don't know if it's a coincidence and i'm having a few good days or the few capsules have already had an effect. I'll keep you posted how it develops.

As for Eleuthero i'll ask it as a new topic, maybe there will be people who have experience with it. Thank you!
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