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Taking a 4 week break - opinions/advice please??

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Posted 5/4/2015 4:45 PM (GMT 0)
Couple of things. First, I think I've stalled out in my treatment. LLND hasn't gone past the lyme treatment....even though we think I have Bart.
I have been feeling more pain at night when I'm sleeping, and last night my husband said I was making the weird noises again when I was breathing...like their was phlegm in my throat...and I was trying to push past it with every breath.
I am not herxing now...as I've been off all antibiotics and herbals.

I have an appointment on Wednesday...so will discuss bart treatment.

So, my question: My liver enzymes have been raised for many months now...not much, but keep climbing a bit.

I want to take a 4 week break of all antibiotics and herbals (with alcohol) and retest...and see if they stabilize...or even come down a bit.

Question: I know I can backslide in that time...but it shouldn't put me back to square one should it?
Also, if the lyme develops resistance...it will just be to the antibiotics I was on? the ceftin and biaxin?

Am I asking for trouble to do this?
I want to help my liver out before going on Rifampin.

I'm feeling quite emotional now..those doubtful feelings are creeping into my head....am i going to be in pain for the rest of my life, etc.? I'm sure many of you know what I'm talking about.

I also need to prepare something to say to my LLND...to push for the rifampin and mino (he wants doxy)....without 'stepping on his toes'.
I thought I'd say, "After my last lab results, and seeing my liver enzymes had risen again, I stopped my antibiotics...to let my liver recover...as I know we'll be treating Bart with rifampin soon."
Then I'll say, "What do you think about adding minocycline to the rifampin...since I've already tried the doxy in the beginning of my treatment...and I would like to try the mino...."

I would rather suggest that...rather than have him suggest doxy...and then say "Can I try mino instead". I'd rather not reject his idea...if that makes any sense.
Posted 5/4/2015 5:21 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, I think taking a break is a great idea. I have been taking 3 week breaks periodically to give my liver a break as well, with no backsliding. This is actually preferred, as abx suppress the immune system and continuous therapy greatly increases toxicity. I would not worry about developing resistance. From what I have heard, it is very very unlikely, especially since most of us are on more than one antibiotic. What are your AST and ALT numbers now? If I remember correctly you were in the 80's last time?
Posted 5/4/2015 5:35 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Fronton for your response. I don't know why I'm so upset right now...I'm wondering the longer I treat lyme, the more my bart comes to the forefront...maybe the increase in pain is bart...and also now the emotions gone wild...from bart...
also, this morning, I have a pain in the front of my head. I have not had any headaches with lyme...this one now is in the forehead area...and it's very localized.

I don't have any AST numbers - my Dr. doesn't test for that one...I don't know why.

ALT: range: <50 March 3: 73 March 15: 92 Apr 7: 77 Ap.30: 101
GGT: range: <59 March 3: 51 March 15: 49 Apr 7: 59 Ap.30: 65

Bilirubin is raised - due to gilbert's syndrome...not getting progressively worse...though.

I don't like the 101...so that's why I'm taking a break - from 73 in early March to 101 in end April.
And GGT is out of range now...wasn't before.
Posted 5/4/2015 7:20 PM (GMT 0)
Before I even started treatment and before I knew I had Lyme my bloodwork was wacky, the liver enzymes, Lymphs and I forget what else. Last time, even on Rifampin for 3 months everything was good except thyroid. I believe drinking kombucha tea helped me out, I've been doing it now for over a year.

I think it's good to take a break from anx but don't see harm in the herbs. I took a 3 month break from them but then once back on it kicked my butt and I felt like I back slid big time for several months.

I guess you could suggest to him what you want to try. Good luck and let us know what happens.
Posted 5/4/2015 7:35 PM (GMT 0)
Revive: My labs were normal at the beginning of my lyme treatment...so I know it's not just the lyme infection causing the elevations.

So, it's either the antibiotics...or could it possibly be that after treatint lyme, my bart has gone crazy, and that's affecting my liver?

Does bart affect the liver in that way? I guess I should read more of my Buhner bartonella book....

I stopped the herbs, too, because of the alcohol...although not a lot...when I take several of them three times a day...it could affect my liver...
Posted 5/4/2015 11:53 PM (GMT 0)
I think it has a lot more to do with the toxins from the die off affecting your liver than anything. I had issues with my liver, more this last time than the first time I went through treatments too.

A break from meds might be just what you need for a couple of reasons! Why not try it? You can always restart your chosen meds/herbs earlier than you originally planned!! Just detox and take good care of your liver while you are taking your break. Lots of "liver loving foods"!!!
Posted 5/5/2015 12:35 AM (GMT 0)
I just thought of something....I did the hout challenge, on Wednesday - right to full dose (after being off it for at least a month)....did full dose 3 x, and then on Thursday, same thing, plus added in Sida - full dose.
I stopped the challenge - hadn't herxed...but was going away for the weekend Friday.

Sunday was not a good day - and last night I had an old symptom back - noisy breathing while I sleep - and hubby noticed it...and said it sounded phlegmy. Also, I woke up in a panic in the middle of the night after a nightmare.

Could it possibly be that the hout and sida that I took on Thursday and Friday stirred something up?

I am really sore today - more sore than I've been...(and I've been sore...lol). My left shoulder blade area is killing me...

and this new symptom of stabbing pain in the front of my head- left eyebrow area, but behind it...not excruciating - but intermittant stabs. (I posted about it in another post).....hmmm...I wish it was easier to figure this out...
Posted 5/5/2015 12:42 AM (GMT 0)
I would say yes it's more than possible you stirred up something! I would even say that it's very likely, as the timing all fits.
Posted 5/5/2015 1:42 AM (GMT 0)
geez...talk about my short-term memory being...well...short term...haha.

I never even thought about the bart herbs I took (at full dose, too!) on Wednesday and Thursday.

Friday I felt okay, but Saturday was so-so and then Sunday not good and bad night last night...and continuing soreness today.

overall - I've been sloppy with my detoxing. I was gone Friday afternoon to Sunday evening. No baths, no lemon water...and not enough plain water...just one dose of pinella....

I've been bad, very bad.... nono
Posted 5/5/2015 1:51 AM (GMT 0)
You can try the break. Your body def needs breaks. If you find you relapse then you obviously need to restart abx.
Posted 5/5/2015 2:19 AM (GMT 0)
You could try the break and see how you feel. I pulsed abx last year - 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off - and I detoxed as much as possible.

Please keep us posted!
Posted 5/5/2015 4:29 AM (GMT 0)
You may already know this, Milk Thistle is good for the liver, also NAC can help it heal and detox.
Posted 5/5/2015 5:09 AM (GMT 0)
Thanks all for the input.

Bluebyyou - Don't know if you'll be back to this thread...but if you are...was that 3 week on, 3 week off pulsing - lyme meds or bar or babs?
How long did you do that for...and did you have an improvement with that or just stay the same.

Lighterbeing - yes, I am taking Milk thistle and also ALA for my liver. I take NAC once in a while.
Posted 5/5/2015 6:34 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie, also, my doc generally does not get concerned unless the ALT is above 150. I am not sure if this is "good" practice but food for thought. My ALT last week came in at 90 and I am continuing treatment. ALT is also not specific to the liver (it is, however, more specific than AST which is probably why your doctor does not even bother with AST). Your liver is unlike any other organ in that it can regenerate on its own.
Some say this is what the Greeks were referring to when Prometheus' (Titan) liver was eaten by a crow as punishment and then regenerated on its own.
Posted 5/5/2015 10:15 PM (GMT 0)
According to Dr. Horowitz, erlichia, anaplasma, richettsia can cause high liver functions. Not sure what else can.
Posted 5/6/2015 12:13 AM (GMT 0)
Revive: The problem is that my liver enzymes were fine until I went on antibiotics...even though I had lyme for over a year prior to the antibiotics. They've been steadily creeping up.

Fronton: I'm not at 150 yet, but it's going in that direction. If I continue in as is, I could be at 150 in a few months...so I'd prefer to give it a break now...and get them down before starting Rifampin.....hopefully I can achieve that quickly...
Posted 5/6/2015 12:50 AM (GMT 0)
I would use this time to detox. That way your liver and your body will start fresh and prep for the new treatment.
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