All tinctures are not created equally

Many of us are aware of the various sources of supply that Buhner recommends.

Well, I've been buying the bulk of my tinctures from either Sage Woman Herbs or Woodland Essence.

Since Montana Farmacy now sells some of their tinctures on Amazon and offers free shipping, I decided to buy Cryptolepis from them.

I also decided to compare the labels on the Woodland Essence and Montana Farmacy bottles.

Woodland Essence makes a 1:7 60-65% alcohol preparation with dried Cryptolepis root (this means that the tincture is one part herb, 7 parts liquid of which 60-65% is alcohol)

Montana Farmacy makes a 1:5 60-65% alchohol preparation with Cryptolepis "extractives" (whatever that means lol)

All I know is - Buhner's "Herbal Antibiotics" book indicates that Cryptolepis tincture is supposed to be made in a 1:5 ratio with 60% alcohol.

Somehow, I'm thinking Woodland Essence's product might be somewhat weaker (due to larger percentage of liquid used in the preparation) than Montana Farmacy's....and I am transitioning brands cautiously :)

I already learned the hard way about the differences with preparation when I switched from dried-leaf Houttuynia tincture to fresh leaf tincture (per Buhner's recommendation)....fresh leaf is definitely "more potent plant medicine" as Buhner states.

Has anyone else noticed these types of things?

Thank you for this very interesting information. I buy my tinctures from Woodland Essence so this is of interest to me.

From what I understand about the process of making tinctures, the ratio is how much product is added to the container and how much alcohol is used to fill the rest of the container. I wonder if the more alcohol you have in it the more you can extract from the herb as it is a more potent solution.

But then again, if you have more herb, does it mean that the solution will be stronger since there is more product to extract from? I would imagine that lengthening the extraction process might also play a part in how strong the final product will be.

Sharing of your experiences, Trav, has helped me immensely - thanks :)

And, Healing98....I, too, have wondered the same things as you - especially now that I'm making a large number of my own tinctures.

The ratio is actually amount of herb in dry ounces to amount of liquid in liquid ounces (of which a certain percentage is alcohol (the rest water)...and these percentages vary depending on whether or not fresh or dried herbs are being used.

I'm doing things "by the book" (Buhner's herbal medicine making instructions in his "Herbal Antibiotics" book). This translates into me powdering whole herbs I bought, following the ratios along with percentages of grain alcohol (which is as close to 100% alcohol as you can get).

Some people use the folk method: herbs half-full in a jar that's filled to the top with "regular" alcohol (50% alcohol content usually).

Buhner mentions that using grain alcohol results in extraction of more constituents than "regular" alcohol. I wish he clarified the two points you've speculated about....

The method I'm using indicates a 2-wk maceration period. Well, due to lack of time for decanting, some of my herbs macerated for 3 wks. I'll be slowly transitioning to the "anti something" herbs lol

It was only after my "Houttuynia incident" (not bad but it got my attention :) that I decided to read labels more closely.

Ironically, Woodland Essence's Sida Acuta tincture is also 1:7 and Sage Woman's is 1:5.

I long ago switched to Sage Woman's products for the most part - only because they are less expensive, ship more quickly and at a lower price than WE's.

Still, Woodland Essence is the only Buhner-recommended source that makes fresh-leaf Houttuynia so I haven't abandoned them completely.

I guess this could be similar to what we go through with generic vs brand-name pharmaceuticals...

Traveler said...
I like this set of instructions for making tinctures. I think it's explained very well:
mountainroseblog.com/guide-tinctures-extracts/

Thanks for sharing this link again, Trav!

Buhner lists only 2 wks. maceration as does this site (with 2 wks. listed as the minimum):

www.herbalista.org/Herbalista/cGHPs_files/Tincture%20Instruction%20Handout.pdf

I imagine longer maceration times would mean stronger tinctures....

I wish I knew what places like Woodland Essence, etc. were doing.

Post Edited (cd3764) : 12/3/2015 8:39:37 AM (GMT-7)

My understanding is that 1:7 is weaker than 1:5 as well. It's 1 part to 7 parts - and 1 part to 5 parts, so it makes sense that something with "less parts" will be stronger.

"Sharing of your experiences, Trav, has helped me immensely - thanks :)"

Thank you CD!! I'm glad I've been helpful in some way. That's what makes this forum so great - sharing what has worked for us.

and I love how you are calling it your "Houttuynia incident"! LOL! I had one of those and it put me on my rear for 3 weeks - and that was at half doses!! LOL! It can sure hit some of us really hard!

Funny, because in his Bartonella protocol he lists WE as one of the sources to buy Houttuynia from...

I am thankful for seeing this information. I was getting ready to order CL from WE next week. Now I will be ordering it from MP.

CD can I hire you as my LLA? Lyme literate advisor? So you can advise me on how to treat myself? Your knowledge absolutely amazes me.

make that three of us.

Also keep in mind that there can be a big variation in the active compound of the plant depending on how and where it was grown. For Artemisia Annua I have seen that the artemisinin content varies from 0.1% to 1.4% (one paper mentioned 0.1% in the plant they were using, another paper mentioned that hybrid Artemisia Annua could have a content as high as 1.4%). That's a change in concentration of the final extract of 1400%. Compare that to 1:5 vs 1:7 where 1:5 is 40% stronger than 1:7.

For cryptolepis I saw in one paper the cryptolepine content varied between 0.7% to 1.4%. I couldn't locate the paper again so I might be a bit off on the numbers here. Still, it's a variation of 200%.

PeteZa said...
I ran out of WE Knotweed ordered and then realized that it would not get her in time. So I quickly ordered from Sage. Sage 1:5 60% organic alcohol. WEn 1:5 65-75% organic sugar cane alcohol. They have different directions also. Sage 1 dropper 2x's a day, WE up to 30 drops in water 3x's a day.

I made the mistake of starting my Cryptolepis at the same time I changed brands of JK. I have no idea what then made me sick again. JK change or addition of Crypo. I have now received the WE JK and have gone back to it. I am so flipping tempted to mix my Sage and WE JK so I don't waste either. I just have this sneaky hunch that my body like the WE better than the Sage. Of course, I bought the 4 oz bottle of Sage. Lessons all the time with lyme. -- I need to make this t-shirt.

Sorry you had to deal with this, PeteZa!

Put me in on the t-shirt order....I've always said we've been engaged in crash course on Lyme and Co's. Too many of my lessons resulted in 20/20 hindsight lol

svalentina said...
Funny, because in his Bartonella protocol he lists WE as one of the sources to buy Houttuynia from...

WE is the only one of his recommended sources that sells fresh-leaf Houttuynia tincture.

According to Buhner, fresh-leaf Houttuynia tincture is the most potent form.

Ohyran said...
Also keep in mind that there can be a big variation in the active compound of the plant depending on how and where it was grown. For Artemisia Annua I have seen that the artemisinin content varies from 0.1% to 1.4% (one paper mentioned 0.1% in the plant they were using, another paper mentioned that hybrid Artemisia Annua could have a content as high as 1.4%). That's a change in concentration of the final extract of 1400%. Compare that to 1:5 vs 1:7 where 1:5 is 40% stronger than 1:7.

For cryptolepis I saw in one paper the cryptolepine content varied between 0.7% to 1.4%. I couldn't locate the paper again so I might be a bit off on the numbers here. Still, it's a variation of 200%.

This is so very true and can explain differences in tinctures from the same company. Sure, all of the tinctures they made from the same batch of herbs would have similar properties. But, things could be different the next time :)

It's not really the end of the world - just something to be conscious of.