All tinctures are not created equally

sunfun, PeteZa and Girlie....and anyone else who might be interested,

I hope you know I will gladly help any and all of you if I have the knowledge base to do so. I need to do something with all that I've learned while trying to heal lol

Oh...in keeping with the label-checking, I realized SW Bidens is made from "extractives" while WE is fresh-leaf (Buhner's recommended version).

Of course, I've been buying SW's because it's less expensive.....and will now go back to WE's when it's time to re-stock.

20/20 hindsight again lol

cd3764 said...

Girlie said...
I'll add my two cents...just to confuse us more


I started out using Woodland Essence...and my LLND approved of the brand.

A couple months later, WE was out of one of the tinctures...so I ordered it from Sage Woman Herbs.When I told my LLND I had switched...he told me to take more.

But it doesn't make sense if WE is 1:5 and SWH is 1:7 - you would think 1:7 is 'weaker'


I'm thinking my LLND's got it backwards...

But, if we are titrating slowly up to what 'works' - does it matter? We will just have to take more of the weaker one.

I think your LLND has it right, Girlie.

You'd need more of a weaker tincture to achieve the same results as a stronger one....and you did say this :)

Without a doubt, it doesn't matter if we're titrating slowly. What does matter is the implications of switching brands at any time during the process. We run the risk of herxing/increased herxing if we switch to a stronger preparation.

Oh goodness - I must have been having a brain 'moment' - I had it backwards - WE is 1:7 and SWH is 1:5 - so we need more of WE. So, when i switched from WE to SWH - I did need less, but LLND said I needed more.
Oh gosh - have I made this confusing...or what????

An interesting tidbit I just came across while looking something else up. From Buhner's site:
buhnerhealinglyme.com/herbs/role-of-houttuynia-in-bartonella-protocol/

"Houttuynia is a fairly good broad spectrum antiviral and antibacterial herb. It MAY be active for bartonella (James Schaller says it is but I can’t find any studies corroborating that). However it is also an extremely good herb for lowering the specific cytokine cascade that occurs in bartonella and stimulating the parts of the immune system that lower bacterial or virus initiated inflammation in cellular tissue."

**I added the underlining for emphasis.

NotQuiteAntonio said...
I was checking out a site called Beneficial Botanicals, 'cause I saw Buhner mention them in relation to the Lion's Mane, and some of their tinctures have a ratio of 1:1.

What's more is that they only cost $15 for 2 oz as compared to the 10 - 12 dollars you'd pay for an ounce elsewhere.

That's really strong then? Why are they making them at that ratio, when the others are at 1:5 or 1:7?

I mean, I'll probably just end up going with one of the other providers mentioned for everything but that anyway, as I guess I'd feel safer just going with the norm.

Just curious.

Lion's Mane is a mushroom so I would imagine making tinctures of it would be different than herbal tinctures.

Buhner does recommend Beneficial Botanicals (and only them as of when he posted on the website)...for Lion's Mane.

All herbs should be done low and slow.

Start Houttunyia at one drop a day and see how it goes then up it slowly.

I ended up doing Houttunyia 3 times a days and I did 2 droppers. I had an easy time with Hout. Now Cryptolepis was a different story.

Remember we all are different and my max will not be your max.

Does Houttuynia cross the BBB and reach the eye?

I use Montana Pharmacy. Good to know their stuff is potent. And also they give you little tootsie roll candies inside of their package (even though I can't eat it). But it's the thought haha.

I just ordered WE CSA for DS to try alongside his abx treatment and then read this - guess we'll try Sage Women next time! I have a few questions.

It is okay to use CSA along with abx/malarone, right? Also, should he use it daily even in off days/weeks from his LLMD meds? Finally, I know to increase dosage up slowly but should we keep at a lower dose since he's on abx/malarone etc or use until he herxes?

Hey Kathie,

The 1:1 tincture is referred to as "The russian formulation" by Buhner. It is recommended if you use this stronger formulation, that you do it for a shorter duration (I think it was 4-6 weeks?). 1.25:1 is not a formulation I can comprehend as I have not heard of any tinctures being pushed past a 1:1 ratio, it may be an extract. Also don't take Eleuthero after 4pm, as it can keep you awake!

Also keep in mind some brands of activated charcoal are matched with licorice root (glycerrhiza). If taking more than 1/2 tsp per protocol (3x daily), you must discontinue this every 8 weeks, for 8 weeks from my understanding.

Also, it is recommended that all of the immune remodulation from the core protocol be taken, as many of them are pieces of the puzzle that will stop the cytokine cascades from happening. They work together to stop individual cascades from causing the next. The more your taking, theoretically the more improvement you should see.

Also keep in mind there is different ways that a herbs medicinal properties can be withdrawn. Either by alchohol, or water. Ratios are imporant if you're trying to be precise with measurements for treatment patterns (at least im hoping!). As stated herb quality will have a lot to do with this.

Lastly, remember that some herbs actually work better in certain forms. JKW is recommended as a powder, as is with vitamin C. Withania is also better as a powder than a tincture when available. I believe cats claw is too if memory serves me right. Licorice as a tincture and same with red sage/skullcap.

If you can do an andrographis tincture let me know, I will send you a medal :)

I'm still confused about the Eleuthero, though...not sure whether I should take the stuff I bought, which is the formulation he recommended on his website...herb pharm.

buhnerhealinglyme.com/

Does anybody else take this?

Kathie,
I take the Eleuthero from herbpharm and have felt it is very beneficial. But now I am confused, lol! From what I read which admittedly is kind of blurred sometimes due to "lame lyme brain", I thougt Buhner said that it was safe to take indefinitely. Ohhhh...my brain hurts! Too much to think about! Lol

Sorry guys, I didnt mean to add the confusion.

This is something that confused me too, and i fought long and hard and from a concensus of 4 people without lyme that read it, this is how we interpretted it (without influencing eachother, everyone came to the same conclusion. This is from reading "Healing Lyme, second edition" from Buhner.

So... 1:1 formulation can be taken for 30-60 days, however it gets expensive at the upper dosage limits.
This formulation can be used to treat acute issues, it should be discontinued for 2-3 weeks. This is recommended "if the symptoms of overall health are better on the stronger extract"

The other is a 1:5 formulation. He refers to this as its "tonic" use. The 1:5 formulation can be used "up to a year"

So kathie, in closing.... It doesn't really matter, just be aware of what your taking and for how long. I know licorice root is another that in the higher doses needs to be restricted every so often. If you have a better reaction on the 1:1 then just make sure you remove it every 1-2 months for 2-3 weeks. If the 1:5 works for you, you could save a buttload of money (or not, as you dont have to take it for 2-3 weeks every so often, I will let you do the math on that!) and not have to worry about restricting it.

Asmoline, you didn't add to the confusion..you helped clarify things for me. Thanks! Not sure where to get the 1:5...I'll have to look into that.

PeteZa, I remember you said you took cordyceps... I think I'll start that next.
I started Eleuthero this AM and I'm OK with it so far...I hope it boosts my energy because it could use a little energy boost. I'll read about the others and see how expensive they are, if I can swing it I'll take them, too.

I'd like to have about an hour with Stephen Buhner.