Best way to treat co infections..babesia & bartonella

Samcats, these are great questions! Someone much more versed in antibiotics than I will have to answer this one. They will be on here soon.

I am treating Lyme, Babs and Bart simultaneously but I am following an herbal protocol.

Some people do take 3-4 abx at a time. I would hope they're only doing so because herxes are manageable.

Savvy LLMD's will trial meds for the coinfections and gauge response. It's not uncommon for people to receive another diagnosis this way.

Plaquenil is usually taking with something else to treat Babesia. Clindamycin is often paired with doxy. I don't know if clindamycin comes in IV. You mentioned Mepron - will you be taking it?

Is the reason you're going with a picc line because you've developed severe GI issues with abx?

Treating these infections is really a trial and error process.

How do you know for sure if you have babesia or do you just treat it anyway? Is there a specific herb that can successfully eliminate babesia so I don't have to take another antibiotic? I tested through igenix lab but is that not reliable enough for co's?

My doctor wanted to do the picc because of the severity of my neuro symptoms. I don't think I have any GI issues from the antibiotics as of now.

I tested negative for the microti strand. Is there other tests for the other strands?
Thanks

Samcats I have Lyme, Babesia and Bart and have been treating for 11 months since knowing about it. I didn't treat Bart directly until about 6 weeks ago and that's when I realized so many of these symptoms overlap its hard to unwind them. What can happen is you get the bug load down for one of them and the others take center stage and new symptoms come out.

My LLMD treated Lyme and Babesia at the same time (positive on Igenex test for both) by using Zithromax, Cefdinir and Mepron. The later generation Cephalosporins do very well against a wide range of bacteria and parasites like Babesia as well.

Bartonella is usually combination abx therapy as well. Rifampin is a big one as well as Cipro or Levaquin. Bactrim has its place also.

You can also try some herbs to hit Babesia. Plenty of folks here do that.

Does either mepron or malarone come in iv? Are the success rates for the herbs similar to the antibiotics when treating the co infections? I don't want to have to take another antibiotic or two more but I do want to address it if I have it.
Thanks

Samcats I am so very sorry. This is a very extreme measure to have a picc line inserted that goes so very close to your heart. I hope he has tried everything else first.

Samcats

While everyone is different, there are people who have healed on herbs alone. A combination of oral abx and herbs seems to be very common...some people start off on abx only and then add herbs - others take them concurrently. Based upon what I've learned, if you're going to do both, concurrently is the way to go. And, again, IV abx is really a last resort. Yes, older guidelines indicated for such but newer clinical evidence is showing what Rikky1 shared.

I think the fact that you're not comfortable with the idea of a picc line says a LOT. You are really very early in treatment for such a drastic and life-altering measure.

And I must tell you that your writing is phenomenal for someone with nuero Lyme. If you are comfortable sharing, what all are you dealing with in regards to neuro Lyme symptoms?

I'm sure your decision to get the picc line wasn't made lightly and I'm really, really sorry for possibly starting a tailspin. The members here are just too important to me for me to not share what I've learned if I think it will help them.

I have partial vision loss in my right eye that comes and goes, tracking issues with my eyes, tunnel vision, focusing issues, floaters, lights in vision, tremors, fasculations/muscle Twitching non stop, slurring speech, memory problems, brain fog, floating / spacey feeling constant, seizure like episodes, buzzing and ringing in the ear almost constant, neck twitches (my neck will like randomly move/turn), that's all I can think of now. All my symptoms are mostly neuro besides what I listed in my first post. I am lucky I found my LLMD when I did because I was a complete mess. I thought I was dying in the months prior to seeing him. My brain gelt like it was shutting down. He put me on orals at first to lessen the bacteria and help reduce the herxing for when I start the iv. From the beginning it was pretty obvious I would be doing iv treatment. i am completely unable to do much of anything. I try to run or walk whenever I can and I shower maybe twice a week. Some of my other symptoms have improved with the orals but my LLMD thinks my case is severe enough to do iv (should have happened months ago he believes:/)

Samcats I do not want to talk against your doctor and your belief in him. I hear your desperation and I am so very sorry you hurt so much. I know how you want to believe in him and what he is telling you. And, if I was you, I would do the same thing. BUT....

I also care about you and want what is best for you and I have seen so much.

I KNOW what a picc line is and all the side effects. Do you?? That is what I ask. As long as you know EVERYTHING, then I am for you. But, if you have no information, then you should do your research and learn about what you are ready to embark on. That is all I ask. Do not believe another person. Do not believe me, your doctor, or anyone. Do your research. And if this is what you want..... I am on your team and all for you!! I will be your biggest cheerleader. Just know everything about it before you do it.

Hugs of comfort. I am on your side!!

I never doubt when someone says they are seriously impacted by these infections. I was only saying that you still have a choice.Have you read my story? (link at the bottom of my posts) If you would rather, you can go to the "New to Lyme?" thread, and read through the Master Symptom List for Lyme, and other than male only symptoms and the worst of the heart issues, I had every single symptom on that list, plus seizures and multiple lesions on my brain. And that does not count the symptoms of the numerous co-infections that I had.

Again, I'm only saying that you still have choices.

As PeteZa said, we are on your side. We are only concerned that you get good, safe treatment.

Samcats, are you located in the New England area by chance? I'm looking for a doctor in Mass that will prescribe rocephin. Thanks!

ziege said...
A bit late to the fair here, but I find the negative comments regarding PICC lines by people who have never actually had one more than a little disturbing. I thought this was a support forum? Why are you undermining samcat's relationship with their physician?

What kind of support would it be to not make sure that any member understand the risks involved with something like this? I've watched as members have had serious, and life threatening complications from PICC lines and IV's. Why would I NOT say something if I care about members here like I claim to?

And it's not like we said never, we were only explaining that IV meds are no more effective than orals - many well known LLMD's will also say the very same thing. So how is that not supporting a member? Letting them know that they may not need IV or PICC lines?

ziege said...
In the unlikely event Samcats is still visiting this forum after the above comments, I'd like to share my experience with PICC ABX[/quote
But I do find this rather offensive, since you are directing this at everyone else on this thread.

ziege said...
I was on orals for 5 months and steadily worsened. My neuro cognitive issues were beyond belief. I went from being the smartest person in the room to unable to complete simple forms. Within 4 months of IV ABX, my neuro symptoms were gone. GONE!!! My brain came back like a light switch being flicked on. I'm back at my original job that I had to leave when my brain stopped working.

You are one of the ones that it worked for. Why wouldn't you want us to let people know that it doesn't go this way all the time?

ziege said...
Yes, PICC lines are a total pain in the butt not to mention being very expensive, but for some of us, they have worked.

Again, where did anyone say they never worked?

ziege said...
My understanding of forum rules is that we are not to criticize other peoples treatment choices. And by Samcats responsed, it is clear that they felt criticized by the commnets. Shame on you!

We also have a rule that states: No posts that attack, insult, flame, defame, or abuse others. As well as one that says to be respectful of Moderators. So, shame on you for telling others to not let someone know they may not need all the treatments that they are being told they need.

I was in an Endo's office and they tried to get me to agree to surgery instead of just taking thyroid meds. If I had needed warning, I would hope that those I look to for guidance would tell me that I may not need surgery and that all I may need is some thyroid medication.

Again, we were warning someone that they may or may not need a PICC line, not telling them they should never get a PICC line.

Show us where we criticized PICC lines unfairly.

To be sure that we are all using the same words, as I've noticed that sometimes people have different understanding of words:

Criticized: indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way.
www.thesaurus.com/browse/criticized right hand side of the page.

Warn: To notify or make aware in advance of something, especially of possible danger or misfortune.
www.thefreedictionary.com/warned