To: CD3764

Hi Courtney,

I developed urinary urgency and frequency when I was taking abx for Lyme. (Sept '14 - Feb '15) Since I know the bladder is one of Lyme's favorite places to attack, I figured my issues were due to herxing/infection.

My urinary issues fluctuated throughout treatment and got much better as time went on. They were pretty much non-existent this year.

Now, I'd been taking fresh Bidens Pilosa tincture for many months as part of Buhner's Babesia protocol.

I read, though, that it can also treat urinary tract infections. Here are a few links with the scientific one at the end ;)

www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-medical-uses-of-bidens-pilosa.htm

bearmedicineherbals.com/bidens-and-your-bladder-an-underused-mucus-membrane-tonic.html

www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2013/340215/

Anyway, since I'm doing so well with treatment and thought I'd be ready to go down to maintenance doses of the antimicrobials, I decided to start lowering my Bidens dose because I originally didn't think it was doing much of anything (based upon the fact that I didn't herx when I first started it).

All I can say is holy smokes! I lowered my Bidens dose from 1/2 tsp 3x daily to 1/4 tsp 3x daily, within 2 hrs of the first new dose, urinary urgency came on with a bigger bang than I can ever remember experiencing. I could barely make it to the bathroom and sometimes I'd be back in the bathroom within 15 minutes of the last trip. This went on for 3 days until I decided that I am not ready for a lower dose and I went back to 1/2 tsp.

This happened to coincide with Chapelle's mention of D-mannose and its mode of action really appealed to me.

Therefore, I also started D-mannose in powder form - 1 tsp 4x per day. Things improved quickly and I lowered my D-mannose to 1 tsp 3x daily and I plan on going down to the recommended dose of 1 tsp 2x daily probably after the weekend.

Chapelle was able to get relief with the twice daily dosing of D-mannose (she mentioned in her thread that her LLMD wanted her to take it every 4-6 hrs). I decided to follow her doctor's orders ;)

Hope this helps. And, even more so, you get some relief!!!

Wowww Cd, I cant believe it came back just like that when you stopped the Bidens and considering how far you are in with your healing. Ughh Im sorry, thats no beuno at all....but at least you have some methods to the madness that are working to keep it under control! I am def going to get some of the Bidens though thanks to you! I see that Woodland Essance has it in a tincture so I think Im gonna give a that a whirl (unless you can recommend somewhere cheaper but still a *good quality?)


I have racked MY BRAIN over the last couple months trying to get down to the bottom of this bladder crap! *You KNOW how uncomfortable it is CD...nothing lyme is fun but its one of those 'dealbreaker' symptoms in my book!...super annoying & uncomfortable!! But yes, lyme and even some of the co's LOVE to set up shop in the bladder apparently. Its actually so weird but its been where MOST of my pain and issues has migrated to lately. It switches from my back to my bladder region.


There is even a doc in DC who specializes in Interstitial Cystitis and people go to her for chronic UTI issues and she does special tests that the norm docs dont do and she finds the majority of those people end up having lyme, bart, protomxzoa...go figure right! I was thinking about seeing her if my bladder stuff persists but from everything Ive researched, she is mainly just going to treat me similar to how my llmd was treating with abx(only I believe since she does *specialize in IC, she would up the ante with giving more targeted supplements & herbs in conjunction with the abx). I am trying to avoid anymore abx for the time being though.


What gets me is that I have read not only does lyme&co's love the bladder...I read its where they love to set up their biofilms to. Come to think of it, I watched a vid on youtube of a guy who saw the doc in DC I was looking into and he actually shows his tests results showing a good-sized biofilm right in his bladder. I'll look in my YT history and post the link in case you wanna check it out. The only things Ive been doing for biofilm currently are ACV and NAC but I plan to add bromelain and some of the enzymes here shortly when I make another vitacost order. So, in a nutshell, make sure you got some good biofilm penetrators implemented if your not already taking some Cd ;-)
Here is that youtube link:
/www.youtube.com/watch?v=S85DX5GC0R0


I am really optimistic about trying the Biden's now though! Thank goodness for all of us sharing info in this forum because we cant always leave things up to the doc's to figure out when it comes to all these crazy symp's. I have been to my GP twice, urgent care once and also a trip to the ER and none of them could find any of the culture tests to show the norm UTI/bladder/kidney infections signs (except for some trace blood in my urine) so its gotta be something lyme or co related (and as we know they surely dont 'test' for those!).

Many thanks for your reply Cd...I always enjoy reading your posts because you really know your stuff


Hi Chapelle, I only tried the D-manosse for a couple day so maybe I will give it another whirl just to see since it is helping Cd! I think I had read that the D-mannose was only good if you have an Ecoli UTI though (which it works fantastic for from all the reviews that I read) but I am certain that mine is not from the norm E.coli or it wouldve came up on the tests that I took so that it was made me not give it a long enough trial.
I thought I had read it on Dr Mercola's site and turned out that I did...it states:

"It's important to note that D-mannose only works for UTIs caused by E. coli, This represents 90 percent (or more) of infections. If you want to be sure, your physician can order a urine culture to identify the bacteria present, so you'll know if yours is one of the minority of cases not caused by E. coli. As Dr. Wright explained"
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/04/28/d-mannose-uti-prevention.aspx

The issues I have been having are-you name it, I have it! sheesh. But seriously, its been mostly a pressure feeling all in my pelvic region, urgency to urinate, pelvic pain, literally feels like my bladder is swollen from the outside and inflamed. Also, I sometimes get flank pain in my back which scared me it had spread to my kidneys but of course the doctors could not find any indication of the "standard" UTI related bacteria's so we never got anywhere and Ive just been trying to treat it myself. I havent had my morning cup of coffee in 2 mnths....and I miss it SO much! Also, thanks Chapelle, good idea about the urine ph...I have been trying my best to keep my urine as alkaline as possible (actually replaced the cup of joe with a green smoothie).



Thanks again for your feedback Cd & Chapelle! Hope your both having a great day!
-Courtney

also, courtney, i do believe it was bartonella more than lyme in my case that caused the bladder issues. Everytime I herxed, I would we my pants. totally embarrassing. So even though the d mannose helped, the issue sort of played peek a boo all throughout my treatment. i don't remember what your current treatment is at the moment - are you taking antibiotics or herbs?