Help with Buhner Protocol

I just received Buhner's new book and honestly it seems like a foreign language to me. Where do I begin? Can anyone point me somewhere that list out what I need to take and how to start? Maybe it's the brain fog...I don't know where to begin :(

Also, does anyone know if the new book list the protocol for bartonella and babesia? TIA!

Thank you Denise! Are you treating with anything else? I just received my positive test from Igenex about a week and a half ago. I wanted to start with buhner but now I'm not sure!

Faith1212,

I have been researching and from what I can find Buhner's Potocol has been a great source for many. That

is why I decided to try it. We are kind of on our own to make the decisions so its not set in gold. You can

always change whatever you decide.

I started with the Cats Claw, Eleuthero root and Japanese Knotweed. I started with a drop a day and one

at a time. This was suggested by a couple of the Mods on here. I think that you have to kind of pick and

choose your own protocol depending on your symptoms. To me it is a real struggle because my mind is a

jumbles mess. I am also using a lot of detoxing and I have dealt with herx but not severe like some

people. But I am taking it very slow because I am tired of pain and all the other stuff. I have added a few

other things as well to meet my symptoms. I am also using the Ashwaganda

that Buhner suggests for insomnia on his website and even though that information is old, it is laid out in

a way that my lame, lyme brain can understand! Lol The ashwaganda works great for me, but has given

many on this forum problems from what I understand. I just started all this about a month ago. I am still

learning.

If yyou ever want to talk to anotht newbie just email me! Blessings to you and hope you find some answers! Denise K

Thank you for the info Denise and PeteZa!

PeteZa: where do you order all this from? Do you use tinctures?

Also, for the collagen does it already have the vitamin C and selenium or do you add it separately?

No problem Denise!

PeteZa sorry for all the questions :)
At the end of page 215, he states that if you have neuroborreliosis that taking Unicaria rhynchophylla is crucial. How would one know if they have neuroborreliosis? Sorry if this seems like an obvious question...

There have been many discoveries since Buhner wrote his first book on Lyme back in 2005 (or so ;).

I think it's best for those with chronic Lyme (and coinfections) to craft a protocol for themselves using his newer books.

Buhner lists core protocols for each infection.....and then makes recommendations for herbs that can help with specific symptoms (and those herbs are VERY helpful)

Healing from these infections isn't about killing - that's the last thing that needs to happen.

We need to reduce inflammation (cytokine remodulation), heal the areas of the body under attack (protecting endothelial structures and collagen protection), rebuild the immune system (immune remodulation) and, lastly, some killing (anti-spirochetal).

Buhner's protocols are crafted in such a way that we can make our bodies inhospitable to the bugs. That's what the core protocols are all about.

Here are tinyurls I created for Buhner's latest books...

For Lyme:

tinyurl.com/buhnerlyme


For Babesia, Erlichia and Anaplasmosis:

tinyurl.com/buhnerbabs


For Bartonella and Mycoplasma:

tinyurl.com/buhnerbartmyco


That said, most of us start with the Core Protocol and add symptom-specific herbs depending on the individual's situation.

I actually started the symptom-specific herbs first since they are easy to titrate, provide some relief and, in my mind, prepare the body for battle ;)

Without a doubt, LOW and SLOW is the way to go when titrating herbs.

Buhner lists a range of recommended doses for each herb. For some herbs, he provides a choice of capsules or tinctures.

I think it's a good idea to start with tinctures since it's easier to achieve the tiny doses (1 drop) needed to start.

He has a list of recommended sources in the back of the book (not all herb companies are alike). Woodland Essence, Sage Woman Herbs, Montana Farmacy and Monteagle Herbs (in CA) all make tinctures and are on the list.

To anyone having trouble getting started/figuring out what to do next, I suggest you start your own thread.....list your infections and where you're at with treatment (on abx, off abx, etc)....along with your symptoms.

We can help you figure out what herbs might be helpful for you.

Some misc. comments:

The Skullcap Buhner recommends for Scutellaria baicalensis is Baikal (Chinese) Skullcap. He says American Skullcap won't work.

Also, neuroborreliosis means Lyme with any type of neuro involvement - the brain and/or neurological system is affected. Therefore, someone dealing with brain fog (concentration/memory issues), numbness, tingling, etc. has neuroborreliosis.


Finally, Ashwagandha is part of the immune remodulation section of Buhner's Core Protocol - you can see that in PeteZa's post on this thread that listed the Core Protocol.

Bottom line for using Buhner's protocols for any infections, you want to do following the Core Protocol....and add any herbs he recommends for specific symptoms you have.....and any other herbs you think might help.

It takes awhile to get your individualized protocol going but please be rest assured that healing will happen before that.

I went from 90% healed when I started transitioning to Buhner's Lyme, Babesia and Bartonella protocols in August of last year......to 98% healed in late November.

I was only up to 8 drops each of the Babs/Bart herbs at that point (and full doses of the Lyme herbs minus Andrographis).

And, I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that I was at full doses of all my supportive herbs ;)

Everyone's journey is different so please do not expect my experience to be yours. Still, Buhner claims a 95% success rate with his protocols.

Again, ask any questions that come to mind.

Faith, Buhner says to order from an organic place. I really liked Sage Woman Herbs. -- www.sagewomanherbs.com/store/#!/Supplements-for-Lyme/c/11933363/offset=0&sort=nameAsc

They are a great place to ask questions is why I liked them so much and they shipped really quickly. At first I had no idea how long it would take me to run out and I was always cutting it close on ordering. Lesson learned when I ran out and could not take an herb for a couple of days. I learned to stay up on my herb order.
Eventually I got lazy and found a lot of the herbs on Amazon. HawaiiPharm is an organic place and I would get free shipping many times from them because I am Prime.

Denikeef, On No. 4 I did try all of those. I still do Unicaria tomentosa (Cat's Claw) and Cordyceps mycelium (a mushroom). I tried the Eleuthero and I got horrible heart palps and so it was not the herb for me. I did not need the Ash. It is super for adrenal and thyroid!! Also great for stamina and depression. I had no problem in those areas and could substitute something else for immune stimulation. I replaced Ash with Fo-Ti (Ho-Shou-Wu) because I needed more of a neuro, muscle and blood helper.

Buhner believes in all herbs and it sometimes takes our own testing to see what works for us. Just because my body likes and needs a certain herb, it certainly does not mean yours will need it too.

We all are our own guinea pigs. We learn to listen to our body while it is telling us things. If there is one thing about lyme that is "good" it is you definitely learn about what your body is doing. Something most of us took for granted that it was working fine....

Faith

PeteZa already gave you great advice about how to get started with your detoxing protocol. You will most likely be able to get everything you listed going within a week or so. I'd be inclined to start Buhner after that.

If you had a chance to read that thread I linked about what members do for detoxing, you'll see that I do over 20 different things. I'd already been detoxing somewhat before I got Lyme and wasn't even aware of the term lol

I slowly added things throughout treatment to help my body with the battle. It's only been within the past few months that I've been able to cut down on some of the things I do for detoxing since I'm no longer herxing (yay :). I still do daily the things I listed on the thread....and they take no more than 5-10 minutes in total (not counting exercise).

As far as what herbs to start.....I already mentioned Japanese Knotweed as a good first one. JK is part of Buhner's Lyme, Babs and Bart protocols.

Then you could move on to the other things listed in the Lyme Core Protocol that PeteZa shared. (Red Sage and Chinese Skullcap are also helpful for Babs/Bart as are the immune remodulators...many of these same herbs are part of the Babs/Bart protocols)

Moving forward from there, you could add Sida Acuta (part of both the Bart/Babs protocols).....and then perhaps Alchornea Cordiflora (part of both the Bart/Babs protocols)....and then perhaps Cryptolepis for Babesia...and Houttuynia for Bartonella.

L-arginine is a supplement that is part of both the Bart and Babs protocols - it increases the levels of nitric oxide in the blood vessels which makes them inhospitable to the Bart/Babs bugs. It has the potential to reactivate viruses (mostly Herpes (EBV is a herpes virus) and Shingles (chicken pox). Going low and slow with supplementation is, of course, the way to go.

Not surprisingly, the Babs and Bart protocols incorporate other things but I think I've shared a comprehensive start for you.

As you move along, I really hope you consider adding herbs for your specific symptoms. If you think about it, an easing of your symptoms can only help once you start treatment (the relief might seem negligible but that's where the symptoms journal comes in....you'll notice improvements that you probably wouldn't have noticed because you still have other symptoms).

And, I agree with PeteZa about Sage Woman Herbs - they are my primary source for tinctures (although I now make all my own).

I still buy my Houttuynia tincture from Woodland Essence, though, because they are the only Buhner-recommended source that makes his recommended form of Houttuynia: fresh leaf Houttuynia tincture.
Members have healed using Houttuynia powder and dried leaf tincture but I wasn't taking any chances lol

If you are so inclined to list your predominant symptoms, I'll give you suggestions of Buhner-recommended herbs for those specific symptoms.

Always please remember with EVERYthing Lyme: LOW and SLOW is the way to go.

I have yet to come across any member who said that they regretted not going low and slow but there have been many, many members who had to stop treatment due to an unmanageable herx.

If you can remember that treating these infections is a marathon and not a race, you'll do fine.

PeteZa said...
Another word that both CD and I neglected to type is synergy. Buhner really believes in the combined efforts of the herbs working even better than the individual. He really has a tried and true recommendation and if you can, I would stick to his recommendations because he has researched how they work together.

I couldn't agree more.

While I did mention synergy as the reason to get the entire protocol going at low doses (because the herbs enhance the actions of each other), PeteZa brought up the most important aspect of it as it relates to Buhner's protocols.....Buhner's recommendations work because the protocols contain combinations of herbs that work better together.

Thanks, PeteZa!!

Hi Peteza, could you list the ingredients in the Great Lake collagen, they don't have them on their website, I'm allergic to soy, corn, mushrooms, celery, yeast... Don't want to order it if it's not good for me, thank you!

Thanks so much Denise!

Thank you so much everyone for the advice! I'm going to be reading and re-reading it I'm sure 😉

I do have another question that may seem obvious but how do you take tinctures? Just drop them in a glass of water? Can I take them together in the same glass or separate? Also is there anything except activated charcoal that I need to take at a different time?