Candida

I know this is mostly for Lyme but how do you treat Candida? Like systematic... For how long?

It is being addressed :) I was on Nystatin 3 xs a day then diflucan once a week I still have diflucan once a week but I'm wondering if that's enough... I had to quit the diflucan when on Nystatin because it was too much and I know Nystatin doesn't do much for systemic

in addition to the antifungals, it is good to take herbs for candida - alternate them every couple of weeks - consider:
Leuricidin
ADP Oil of oregano
Black Seed oil
Tumeric
Garlic

you can also try cooking with tumeric and garlic and coconut oil. Eating kale is also a good idea (kale chips are tasty!)

i know you have read some of my posts on candida - but incase you missed it, i recommended an excellent book, the "Candida cure"

here is the link to the thread, which is very informative! the other members talk about kefir, which is supposed to be very good against candida:

www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3607185

detoxing with psyllium husk is an excellent choice.

Post Edited By Moderator (cd3764) : 4/27/2016 8:17:25 AM (GMT-6)

tbohl -

All good input on this thread - just wanted to reiterate a few things and add a few more suggestions:

With yeast/fungal overgrowth, you need to hit it hard and fast. It repopulates and grows quickly and can change into a hyphae form (spores) that makes it very difficult to treat. The longer it proliferates, the harder it is to manage.

I don't agree with the "pulsing" that some MDs do - having patients take a strong anti fungal intermittently. This might be necessary as part of a strategy for severely compromised or weak people who can't handle the die off but it needs to be used in context with a broader approach and I don't think it makes sense for the rest of us. It's a good way to build up resistance.

Antifungals kill on contact. Some MDs aren't real knowledgable about local issues vs systemic and prescribe systemics when a local would be more effective. If you don't have immediate impact with a systemic anti fungal (like Diflucan/Floconazole), try a different one (like Ketoconazole). But I'd try a local unless your issues are obviously systemic or severe.

The Nystatin pills that are generally prescribed mostly are full of fillers and very little of the anti fungal and are very expensive. The Nystatin liquids actually have sugar in them to make them tastier (shaking my head). I strongly urge people to talk their MDs into prescribing PURE Nystatin Powder 500,000 units (can be found at most compounding pharmacies). It's naturally derived from the earth and safe for most people to take daily, long-term while they are on abx protocols (does not cross the mucosal barrier and doesn't get processed through the liver).

Y/f overgrowth usually starts in the gut because of the abx components we take orally (even herbs can wipe out enough of your good bacteria that a y/f overgrowth can take hold). The powder has a couple of great benefits--you add it to water so you can swish it around in your mouth and swallow it--so it directly impacts thrush in your mouth/throat on its way down to your stomach. I've also read it can coat your entire alimentary canal--but I need to find out how it survives the stomach acids.

If the y/f proliferates long enough, it can cause damage to the GI--the y/f grows "roots" into the mucosal tissues, basically drilling holes. Fecal matter, toxins, yeast and food particles then seep through the holes and into the bloodstream causing all kinds of problems--this is known as leaky gut. You haven't struggled until your body is creating antibodies against every food you eat... it is a very difficult condition to heal from so it's one of the many reasons to nip a y/f overgrowth issue in the bud. A local anti fungal can manage this.

You can also develop a systemic issue through a leaky gut or by other means but a systemic issue then requires a systemic anti fungal, which then has to get filtered through the lymph system and liver, which can raise liver enzymes. There are several ways to support your liver if you need a systemic anti fungal and I think MDs try to ease up on the liver by having patients avoid taking systemic every day but I don't really agree with this. Yeast/fungus doesn't act like bacteria does and can be very difficult to get rid of without hitting it hard and fast and also incorporating a holistic management approach.

Unfortunately, if you continue taking antifungals, particularly if you're not taking enough of it, and you are eating sugars and simple carbs that feed the y/f you're never going to get it under control and you're very likely at an increased risk for building resistance to the effective drugs or natural antifungals.

As long as you're taking enough of the antifungals and taking them regularly, you should be able to knock out a systemic or local overgrowth within a month or two and then you can transition to a management approach while you're on abx. Most of the time, this is basically transitioning from a systemic anti fungal to a local anti fungal. I've also had success just implementing a very strong binder to manage any y/f overgrowth but this is also somewhat temporary. If you're not on abx your approach can be a little different.

Many people have success with natural antifungals and will disagree with me but all of my research suggests you need to hit an existing y/f overgrowth with Rx and get it under control ASAP, and THEN you can switch to naturals for maintenance or prevention. Depending on your condition, this could take 3-4 wks or more. And as already suggested, if you use naturals you should limit them to two or three at a time and always rotate them out every couple of weeks. It's easy to build up resistance.

If you're having trouble with finding something effective, stool tests like Doctor's Data indicate what is found and which anti fungal is/isn't effective (including common Rx and natural protocols). Not all y/f overgrowth shows up in stools or bloodwork, unfortunately so it's often a clinical dx.

I would maintain an "elimination" protocol for a good couple of weeks past the end of your symptoms. For maintenance, a local anti fungal SHOULD suffice but I would also transition from elimination to maintenance gradually.

Always, support your lymph & liver with systemics but even with locals you should keep in mind that detox is critical--you're killing stuff and that stuff needs to be ushered out of your body just like the lyme & co. Die off can be tough - yeast cells can release 79 different toxins including ethanol and acetaldehyde so keep this in mind as you're figuring out your detox protocol - detox your blood, organs, brain, etc.

So, I'm having one of those days where I'm losing track of what I'm doing so I just realized I have typed a lot of info and maybe haven't answered your specific question. Sorry about that!! Please post another question and we'll get it answered.

-p

Post Edited (Pirouette) : 4/27/2016 1:46:54 PM (GMT-6)

I apologize for what I'm about to say... but from everything I've read, it seems that some people have a micro biome that is yeast/fungus-friendly and some don't. There have been posters here who have mentioned they went through months of abx tx without any anti fungal approach or any associated overgrowth issues at all. I marvel at them and suspect they may be freakishly extra-terrestrial. :)

Not me. From what I've deduced in all the info I've read is that if you have ever had a significant y/f overgrowth or are prone to vaginal overgrowth, thrush or sinus infections (btw - are you sure your sinus issues are bacterial?), you might always have an imbalance and have to be proactive, particularly any time you incorporate abx. It also kind of depends on your broader history.

I started out life w/ imbalance (through DNA studies I know that I was born with low "good" bacteria in my gut). I also know that I have blood sugar challenges (although not yet sure how that might manifest itself with y/f imbalance). I perpetuated this problem because I LIVED on orange juice, trying to consume as much vit. C as possible (as I struggled w/ EBV for decades) and not realizing how much sugar I was actually consuming. So maybe I started out with a band hand but I made it much worse with my diet.

I think we each have our own level of balance or imbalance, too. For some of us who can eat all kinds of sweets and carbs and not have any issues, little attention needs to be paid (lovable freaks!) For the rest of us, we gotta figure out how we define our balance. For me, I don't think I really ever achieve balance so my goal is to have as low a y/f level as I can. I'll never get rid of it all, and some y/f is natural. For me, my tipping point is reached fairly easily--one beer or slice of cake and I could stir up trouble... nothing like before or what I've experienced on abx but I think I know what my body needs to avoid imbalance. And if you have balance, you shouldn't have any sx.

I think I remember reading that you are nearing the end of your treatment (please forgive me if this is not you - my memory still struggles) so you're in an interesting transition phase. So, one thing you can consider is how healthy you were before you contracted lyme & co and if you had any pre-existing gut issues. If not, and if you think you are emerging from tx with a pretty healthy gut, you may just need to figure out your transition "balance".

If you're like me, you gotta figure out a long-term plan because I had a lot of GI trouble before and the treatment only exacerbated those issues.

It is unrealistic to expect people to live a life without anything sweet--and avoiding fruits doesn't sound very healthy. So, once I'm past this treatment I intend to offset a life of eating fruits with a life of also consuming other anti fungal foods or supplements that help maintain balance. I gotta keep the math at 1=1. I know some people who indulge (holidays or slips) and then take strong antifungals to knock out an infection really quick--but doing this too much will surely develop a resistance. I think doing it once in a blue moon is probably effective.

There are things I'm terrified of--like beer. I will have to be very brave to drink a beer again. Maybe that' say ultimate test that if I can drink a beer without careening back into overgrowth misery, that I'm back in balance.

But I know I need a broader long-term plan. So, I have recently been investigating fecal microbiome transplants. I'm VERY interested in it as a way to recover from my disadvantaged DNA and this illness + treatment. It's success rates for c diff are in the 90 percentile, which is extraordinary. CDC won't allow MDs to do it for any other condition... yet. But it's a very simple procedure that many people are doing at home. The key is getting the right donor, which kind of overwhelms me right now. Anyway, that is my long-term plan.

Maybe for now, since you're back on abx you resume a very strict high anti fungal/NO sugar approach until you're off the abx and can transition into a more normal lifestyle.

I think the stool test will probably tell you something but none of the ones I did indicated how bad my overgrowth really was. They did help identify the most effective antifungals, so I appreciated that.

We've also discussed in previous threads that someone who has high hvy metals is also likely very acidic and y/f likes an acidic environment. So you could experiment with alkaline protocols to see if that helps you reach balance more effectively.

I've also read that people who have a moldy environment or an undressed mold issue struggle more w/ y/f overgrowth. I've been tested and don't have issues but I moved from a very arid environment to a very damp environment and I definitely struggle with y/f now more than I did in the dry environment ---it's like night/day.

Having the Diflucan script is handy --if you are prone to vaginal infections you can nip it in the bud fast. But another approach might work for you. If you no longer have systemic sx, and if you are sure your current infection is bacterial and not fungal (I had a nasty sinus infection/bronchitis for over a year--it turned out to be fungal, not bacterial and all the abx I took for that time only made it worse), then you might be able to get by with a local like Nystatin, which is a lot easier on the liver. And, you can take the Nystatin safely longer than the Diflucan and really knock out the overgrowth confidently. And of course, I recommend the pure powder.

Hope this helps but please let me know if I missed anything -

-p

Well... first, congratulations for getting through the lyme & co treatment. What a huge feat. And I love that you are an athlete - this helps so much in healing. I used to be a runner... I think I have been using that as a barometer for when I'm "healed" - when I can start running again.

In some ways, for some people, I think candida can be even more challenging. Not because it's more complicated (it really isn't) but because it is just really, REALLY hard to manage and the medical community knows even less about it than lyme.

So, based on your history I think it might be wise to suspect your sinus issue is fungal. You can approach it two ways:

- you can get your sinus mucus cultured, which should tell you for sure whether it's bacterial or fungal infection. The "post nasal drip after eating sweets" is a huge giveaway. Often, the imbalance starts in the gut but grows up the throat and into the head. A lot can cause post-nasal drip (drinking or eating something hot, allergies, etc) but again, given your context it's hard not to suspect y/f overgrowth. You could also avoid another MD appt (and the hassle trying to convince him/her your infection might be fungal) and just start taking your Diflucan to see if it clears up your sinuses.

I didn't have much relief from my sinusitis & bronchitis until I tried the Ketoconazole, which just a different systemic. I have told this story a couple times on the forum so sorry if I'm repeating myself but for 13 months I was in/out of MD's offices, urgent care, ER trying to get help with the sinus problems. They kept prescribing abx - trying out various kinds - and of course, the infection (since it was fungal) got much, much worse w/ all the abx and dropped into my chest. At some point I came across a warning on the web about sinus infections reaching the brain--causing death and, well, I sprung into action and through Google searches finally figured out it was probably a fungal infection.

Exercise, getting overheated, hot showers or baths can cause serious die off and for me, the die off was scary. A few years back I was celebrating New Year's w/ in a hot tub (not making any connection to too-hot showers and fainting or any other y/f overgrowth symptom) and of course, I fainted and it was a dramatic mess. I think heat can agitate the lyme too. I visited friends in Phoenix in the summer a couple of times and I was miserable and sick the whole time. Only recently have I been able to connect all the dots.

BUT... if you can handle the die-off, die off is a good and necessary thing.

If I were you, I'd start the Diflucan and watch your sx carefully for any changes. If you don't notice much change--it could still be fungal but the fungus isn't receptive to that particular anti fungal. I'd also get an Rx for the pure Nystatin powder, continue your "denial" diet and just knock this stuff out. You can start the Nystatin at the same time as Diflucan or after you're done with it and stay on it for a good month. Here is a source for the dosing that you can share w/ your MD for help:
drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Nystatin_-_how_to_take_it

And of course, for now, just avoid any sugar and simple carbs. It's not a life-long sentence but a temporary imprisonment. :) Here's the kicker with sugar -sugar cravings are not exactly a "normal" thing... So cravings are also a telling sign that you have an imbalance and the y/f are desperate for more food. In fact, the y/f can create scary chemical reactions in your body and brain that take control over what you eat. I've read multiple stories about alcoholics who have healed their alcoholism simply by healing their y/f imbalance. But, once you get everything back in balance, you won't crave the sugary stuff anymore and it won't feel like punishment anymore--you won't even notice it. It's a beautiful thing...

BTW, I learned most of what I know about y/f overgrowth from an ND who struggled w/ alcoholism for decades until she finally learned about the yeast connection:
www.holistichelp.net

So, whatever you decide to do - please let us all know... will be interesting to see how you make it over this final hurdle. Hope this helps!

-p