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Can Speed of Herxheimer Response Indicate Type of Underlying Infection?

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Posted 7/12/2016 7:10 PM (GMT 0)
This is a question that's bounced around my head for quite a while. I personally have very fast herxheimer responses after taking effective medicines (flare in symptoms usually starts 10-15 minutes after ingestion), and this response is consistent across a range of antimicrobials, including both herbs and pharmaceutical abx. What I'm wondering is do certain infections lend themselves to quick herxheimer responses? or could it have to do with pathogen loads? or host genetics? maybe all three?
Posted 7/12/2016 7:14 PM (GMT 0)
I just happened to watch a video of a Q&A symposium w/ Burrascano, Horowitz and Sunjya Schweig. I'm sorry - I can't remember at which part of the video this was discussed but I'm pretty sure it was in the first half:
/youtu.be/GKz2yJj2Sdg

Description of video:
"Published on Nov 6, 2014
The May 17, 2014 Symposium on Tick-borne Diseases held in Cambridge, Maryland concluded with a very informative Question and Answer session featuring questions from the audience posed to Drs. Joseph Burrascano, Richard Horowitz and Sunjya Schweig. Much thanks to the videographer for the event - Bryan Krandle ([email protected]). The topics are varied and much can be learned by these very experienced doctors. The Symposium was hosted by the Lyme Disease Association of the Eastern Shore of Maryland, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization whose goal is to provide educational resources about tick-borne diseases to patients, as well as the medical community. If you appreciate having access to the free videos from this conference, please consider a donation to the LDAESM, P.O. Box 5360, Salisbury, MD 21802. "

-p
Posted 7/12/2016 7:16 PM (GMT 0)
I don't think it's an indication of 'what' infection it is.

I have had several herxes within days of a new med. I'm thinking it's due to killing more than I'm detoxing out.
Posted 7/12/2016 7:19 PM (GMT 0)
I agree, I don't believe it's an indication of what infection it is, only that you're hitting it quickly and with the right things. If everything is 'just right' to heal, then the medications (pharma and herbal) should work quickly and effectively - I sure hope that's the case for you!

The only thing I can think of that would be different is if you aren't able to detox effectively - then toxin loads would be the consideration, not pathogen loads. And you know me well enough (wink) to know what I'll say next!! smilewinkgrin Detox, detox, detox!
Posted 7/12/2016 7:21 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for the responses! appreciate the link for that video Pirouette, will watch it this afternoon.

Girlie, it would be interesting to know if say certain bartonella species respond more quickly to antimicrobials than borrelia. And what about protozoa and other parasites? but maybe you are right, maybe the speed of the herx response is not indicative of anything in particular. My hunch is it could, but I am far from certain. Probably also depends on how systemic the infection(s) are and where the pathogen(s) might be located or sequestered.
Posted 7/12/2016 7:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hahaha, absolutely you are 100% right, detox detox detox. Love you Traveler!!! again, thanks so much for the responses, much appreciated!
Posted 7/12/2016 7:23 PM (GMT 0)
I'm sure that certain strains of these bacteria will be more responsive to certain abx, so it could be more of a bacterial/protozoan strain specific reaction that you are having.
Posted 7/12/2016 7:26 PM (GMT 0)
I wish there was more research looking at the herxheimer response, as of now it seems like there is very little known and understood about it. I mean, we have certain understandings of it, but far from a rigorous and deep comprehension. That is my impression.
Posted 7/12/2016 7:30 PM (GMT 0)
I agree, Sebreg.
Posted 7/12/2016 8:09 PM (GMT 0)
Unfortunately, I can't remember exactly what was stated in the video--but I believe Horowitz was clarifying that due to the Borrelia lifecycle, herxing from infections can be on a two or four-week cycle and then he gave an exception. He referenced more frequent herxing to other pathogens and/or reactions to treatment/detoxing, etc...

Or, I could have remembered wrong. LOL

-p
Posted 7/12/2016 10:10 PM (GMT 0)
The preventative response to dealing with a Herxheimer Reaction involves a treatment protocol that not only kills and reduces the load of Lyme bacteria within the body, but that same treatment protocol includes a consistent detoxification and inflammation reducing component as well.

A Herxheimer Reaction usually causes near-immediate physical symptoms such [as] brain fog, pain, fatigue, and just an overall lack of motivation or passion for anything, but one that lasts for days on end can begin to influence the mentality of a person enduring that Herxheimer Reaction. Thinking positive and keeping a person’s will high is important for continuing treatment for chronic Lyme Disease, so if a Herxheimer Reaction is not reduced to a tolerable level within a reasonable amount of time, the treating physician should mold the treatment protocol so that a person can sustain a relatively reasonable quality of life. Many people quit their treatment protocols before any real progress is achieved because the Herxheimer Reactions are so unbearable and intolerable.

Reference -- www.tiredoflyme.com/the-herxheimer-reaction.html
Posted 7/12/2016 10:17 PM (GMT 0)
In other words -- the goal is not to have a herx at all.
Posted 7/13/2016 3:42 AM (GMT 0)
My herxes all usually start within 15 mins. Been this way since the beginning. I have Lyme, Bart, Babs, Ricksettia. I have a very fast metabolism and also a genetic disposition to fast drug metabolism, so maybe that could be a factor?
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