Alpha lipoic acid

CR, Thanks so much. Interesting to know. This is truly the most confusing disease ever. I don't know what is what. I started adding coconut oil in my smoothies (prebiotic) so wonder if that is making me feel nauseous. Feel tired too. The feeling in my wrists/ankles is much better today. Don't even know where to begin with detox, biofilms, etc... How do you guys just keep on doing this? Cool that you can still exercise. I can't do that yet. Soon I hope.

I know how overwhelming it is because I've been there. 20/20 hindsight ruled my life. That's where this forum can help tremendously. Many of us have already done the research that can help people heal.

The first thing I suggest is maintaining a journal if you're not doing so already. Because dealing with these infections is such an up/down all the way around type of experience, the journal will help you identify improvements no matter how small they might seem.

Lyme will not necessarily come back if it's thoroughly treated....whether it's treated with just abx, just herbs or a combination of both.

However, it can take awhile to rid ourselves of the symptoms. As Dr. Burrascano indicates in the guidelines, 4-6 months is not unusual. Buhner lists an 8-12 month timeframe in his Lyme book.

A lot depends on the state of the body when it was infected, the infections the person has, how well the body detoxes, etc.

Lyme is not like your average sinus infection. It's a more serious infection along the lines of Hepatitis or TB that requires protracted treatment.

Unfortunately, mainstream doctors just aren't taught the right things about Lyme. If you read some of Pirouette's posts on here, you'll discover the extensive advocacy efforts in place that attempt to expose the collusion between IDSA, the CDC and Big Pharma. That's why there is such a disparity with care.

Healing is possible as evidenced by the successes of those who've treated with LLMD's and/or followed protocols such as those Buhner outlines.

How do we keep on doing this? For me, there's no choice. I came into this mess symptom-free and I plan on finishing that way.

Take things one step at a time....

In regards to detoxing, I'm sure you have the various lists of detoxing suggestions. Pick a few that appeal to you (and address the various detoxification systems of the body - liver, kidneys, skin, bowels) and slowly implement them.

Continue to add to your detoxing protocol as you move forward with treatment.

You will get there. Just keep posting questions.

CD,

You are so amazing for continuing to advise and support me. Thank you. Feeling very sorry for myself today. I have been keeping a daily log since this began. I suppose what is confusing is that I know at least four people, who like myself, were diagnosed early, went on abx and they are fine. They never did herbs. I am middle aged but have always ate well and exercised. I'm surprised I still have symptoms. Because I don't tolerate abx well I now feel weakened a bit (no exercise since July 4 weekend when I was bit) just a lot of lying around. I don't really know which herb to begin with, and can I start while still on abx? (I have a feeling I'll be going back on). In my fridge I have Pinella, Burber, Samento, Banderol. I would also love to order Lions mane, which brand do you like the most? I want to make sure I get the real thing. Being that my symptoms were ankles/wrists/fingers I'm guessing I have joint/inflammatory issues. Thanks so much - my gratitude for your kindness cannot be expressed enough. Thank you.

As far as what to do with the herbs you have....

I think you might consider starting Burbur and Pinella because they are more effective when taken at the same time and are excellent for detoxing.

Cowden recommends using the combo twice daily....and more frequently when herxing.

As always, start with one drop of one herb. Since these are detox herbs, I'd imagine you'd be fine taking it twice daily on the first day. Wash/rinse/repeat until you get up to the recommended doses of 30 drops each.

I'd start the Samento after that since it targets Lyme and titrate the same. I know Cowden doses that twice daily.

Cowden advises against taking Banderol with Samento so you could slowly titrate that in the same manner as the Burbur and Pinella and take it twice daily at different times.

Cowden recommends dosing 1/2 hr before breakfast, lunch and dinner...with a 4th dosing time at bedtime. This is an easy way to help remember dosing times and provides for "continuous coverage".

Back when I first read about Lion's Mane, Buhner was only recommending the tincture made by Beneficial Botanicals.

Now, it seems he suggests buying it from any of his recommended sources.

My more recent purchases of Lion's Mane were Myriad Mycology Lion's Mane powder that I bought from 1st Chinese Herbs (using the discount ;).

If anything and in light of your joint issues, starting a collagen support protocol might make sense for you. Lyme destroys our collagen - the glue that holds our bodies together.

Buhner recommends daily consumption of gelatin (collagen) - Great Lakes brand in the red can. My tummy doesn't like that form and I use the stuff in the green can.

I was taking 1 tbsp daily per Buhner's recommendations and was recently advised by one of his recommended herbalists to up my intake. In fact, I was advised to consume animal protein with every meal....and possibly snack on gelatin-rich foods (such as bone broth).

There are many other things you can do to help yourself but those are a few things you can do to start.

Step by step we climb the mountain. Take time to remember the good in your life and you'll be fine.

CD,

You are wonderful. Just read up on gelatin (sounds amazing). Ordered the green can, ordered the Botanical brand Lions Mane and will begin pinella tomorrow. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

One more question - since most of us are on abx for so long is it a given we will all have Candida? I'm doing the candida diet at same time. Can't hurt right?

Thanks.

CD,

Hi. Thanks for the kind words regarding my son. He is on vacation right now with my husband. They are scuba diving at a beautiful resort and I am here. Was not up for travel. Hence, the pity party this week. I LOVED reading that exercise thread and cannot believe you could still do P90 and more. YOU are now my inspiration. I was very into weight lifting/boot camp type exercise. Four years ago I hurt my shoulder (from weights), then I had neurotoxin poisoning (very long story but I tried botox for the FIRST time on my 50th birthday after a friend dragged me with her) and I had a terrible reaction. That triggered fibromyalgia (or so they say). Anyway I have exercised throughout but in a much slower, gentler way. Walks, yoga and a lot lower weights. I usually do need a day or so to recover. Anyway, I will remain positive and as long as I can walk, bike, hike, and do yoga after I'm well I'm good with that.

ABX question: My doctor is calling me momentarily and it looks like monocycline is suggested as a change up from Doxcy. I have never heard of it. Did you take that and do you know if it is stronger than Doxcy - or just different? Thanks.

Girlie,

Thanks so much for chiming in about the mono. I greatly appreciate that. Still waiting for doc to call. I don't have any head issues (yet, hopefully didn't just jinx myself). I am terrible with abx and am handling the Doxcy as well as can be expected (for me). Do you know why it is suggested to switch if they are from the same class of drugs? I love the idea of being able to go in the sun.

Are you ok now? Were you a chronic lymie or caught in time lymie? Either way I hope you are well and am very happy for those of you that pay it forward. I will be doing the same for sure but will need a lot more knowledge and healing before that can happen. THANKS!!!!

Girlie,

Thank you. I don't think I need to switch. Just wrote a separate post after reading up on them both. It was suggested, as an option, by a member so I thought I would ask.

Fifteen months before diagnosis? You chronic-ers fascinate me. How did you ever know? Ah, I now see everyones lyme-bio at the bottom. I am glad you are better now. I think for all of you who have been so ill and still have the heart to help others - that should provide instantaneous healing for you. Wand has been waved. Thanks!

I am so sorry you had ALL of those symptoms. So awful. Yes from what I have read or seen on You Tube people have been suffering for years. This is getting criminal that it's not a known "you must have Lyme" type of deal with doctors. I would love to know why this is so secretive and on the DL in the first place.

Wand is waving crazily and many wishes for you to heal NOW!

So sorry for what you have been through. You chronic lymies are a very strong and inspirational group.

Thank you for what you do.

How thoughtful of your brother, Huddie! That's the kind of support all Lymies need.

Interesting product there. Thanks for sharing!

Sorry, Huddie, but it is not normal to have pain after stopping medication.

I think I mentioned a story from my long-ago past during which I had what my ENT called a "stubborn" sinus infection.

I still had symptoms when I finished the abx he Rx'd. He didn't tell me that was normal but, instead, Rx'd another abx that eventually cleared the infection.

If you've ever had any type of infection before and took abx for it, I'm sure you received instructions to finish the Rx even if you're feeling better.

Mainstream doctors just haven't received the proper training for Lyme and coinfections.

Your doctor is going by IDSA guidelines and those are the ones that failed me as well as countless others.

Pirouette (another mod) has been doing a great job of sharing information about this type of thing in her recent threads:

www.healingwell.com/community/profile.aspx?f=30&p=195281

I consulted a LLMD when I developed symptoms after going off abx ala my PCP because my PCP dismissed my report about them. That was before I learned about successful herbal protocols.

It's your body and your decision.

Sorry to tell you, Huddie, but Lyme "specialist" or not, he is grossly misinformed and my situation is proof positive of that.

I started 21 days' worth of 100mg 2x daily doxy ala my PCP the day after I pulled the tick out of my abdomen.

I developed a stiff neck the 2nd day on doxy that I (MUCH) later learned was a herx. When I saw my PCP one month later, she dismissed the couple of issues I'd developed after going off doxy (weird, neurological-type feeling in one toe, a 4 hr "event" of feeling like I was coming down with something and a sense of fluid retention in my lower legs.)

Once I developed a post-novacaine-type feeling in the left corner of my mouth, I decided to consult a LLMD and met him 2 months after the bite.

I was clinically diagnosed with Lyme due to the Bells Palsy he noted in me. It was so mild that neither I nor my family noticed it until I repeated at home the cheek-puffing he had me do in his office.

Clearly, IDSA treatment guidelines failed me and that is exactly what your Lyme "specialist" is following based upon what he is telling you. There is NO proof whatsoever that taking two doxy after a bite will often prevent infection.

I took abx for 5 months and my LLMD was the one who determined it was time to go off. I was scared lol However, he felt my symptoms were minimal at that point (they were but I didn't have them before the tick bite). And, he was concerned for my microbiome.

I was told to start an herbal protocol and given a choice of Buhner, Cowden or White. I chose Cowden for simplicity and followed the full protocol for almost 6 months.

I only herxed on Cowden and experienced no improvements. Thus my switch to Buhner that is bringing me to full healing.

In all honesty, I wish I followed Buhner's protocols from the beginning. They just make sense to me.

Treating these infections isn't just about killing and that's all abx do.

To heal, we need to heal the parts of the body damaged by the infection(s), clear the toxins generated by the killing, reduce inflammation and rebuild the immune system. Herbal protocols are much more holistic and why I prefer them at this point.

Did I know any of this stuff when I got bit? No.

I'd only learned enough to know to seek treatment after the nymph deer tick bite. I'll know better if there's a next time or if a family member gets bit.

For whatever it's worth, the IDSA guidelines have been removed from the National Guideline Clearinghouse because they are not based upon scientific evidence.

The ILADS guidelines meet the criteria to be on the site and those are the ones doctors should be following.

If you are so inclined, you can read the ILADS guidelines here:

/guideline.gov/summaries/summary/49320/evidence-assessments-and-guideline-recommendations-in-lyme-disease-the-clinical-management-of-known-tick-bites-erythema-migrans-rashes-and-persistent-disease

It's clear your doctor isn't following the ILADS guidelines - sorry.

If you are doing well with Burbur, I see no reason why you can't do another drop later in the day and then start Pinella tomorrow.

I was able to increase both herbs quite rapidly.

Good luck!