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Part 3 - I learned what Lyme really is and wanted to share - may be upsetting to some!!!

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Posted 9/17/2016 8:51 PM (GMT 0)
Link to Part 1: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3703608
Link to Part 2: www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3703919



***Edited only to fix Link to Part 1 *****

Post Edited By Moderator (Girlie) : 9/19/2016 9:35:01 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/17/2016 9:25 PM (GMT 0)
I know my doctor is a huge fan of LDI. He's done a ton of research and speaks very highly of it.

Do any of you know what the ingredients are? I used to take tick nosodes, which are similar to a vaccine. It gives you instant antibodies supposedly. I give it to my dog even.
Posted 9/17/2016 9:37 PM (GMT 0)
The other part of this that I'm trying to wrap my head around is the possibility of both reactions simultaneously. So you're immune system is exhausted and shuts down, but then people can get a mast cell degranulation response which seems to be highly inflammatory. Anything is possible in nature I suppose.
Posted 9/17/2016 9:37 PM (GMT 0)
www.betterhealthguy.com/ldi

" The secret sauce of the LDI therapy is finding the right dilution of a given mix for each person. If the dilution is too high/too weak, nothing may happen. If the dilution is too low/too strong, a major flare can occur. If the dilution is the right one, magic may happen as the immune system learns how to better interact with the microbes in the body. "


From my notes:
It is a mix of multiple strains of Lyme, bart, babs, ehrlichia. (maybe others?)
The lyme mix contains more than 70 strains - of dead antigens.
A typical dilution maybe 6C and it would be 1,000,000,000,000 dilution of the antigen.
Posted 9/17/2016 9:43 PM (GMT 0)
Girlie it sounds like a nosode then?
Posted 9/17/2016 9:45 PM (GMT 0)
The nosodes I took for quite a while actually had babs, Bart, Lyme, myco, CP, and multiple strains of each. It's a tincture so you can easily control the dose and you take it sublingually. Sounds very similar. Trying to discern a difference? Maybe nosodes are a more affordable option?
Posted 9/17/2016 10:37 PM (GMT 0)
Ldi is a mix of dead bacteria (lyme, bart, babs, ehrlichia) mixed with beta glucuronadase. in his latest videos he's saying that the beta gluc may not be necessary. Just the antigen mix. I am not familuar with nosodes to know if that's similar.
Posted 9/17/2016 10:49 PM (GMT 0)
I still don't know how it differs from homeopathy.
Posted 9/17/2016 11:37 PM (GMT 0)
What is a nosode? Where we can get this LDI therapy? I asked before and the link prompt me to put my email and phone and I will be contacted....in the future.

Would it work for all lyme cases? How about mainly neurological lyme. I know I asked this question before....
Posted 9/18/2016 12:49 AM (GMT 0)
I have access to it through a LLND close by me.

I thought someone posted that you can get your LDI from Dr. Vincent...not sure if he does phone appointments..or how it works.

I think that most people who have chronic lyme have some neurological lyme symptoms.
Posted 9/18/2016 2:53 AM (GMT 0)
evianangel - a comment for your post on part 2, I dont know how to say this but:

There are a lot of "Drs" in this state who really are not Drs. They are chiropractors calling themselves Drs. and many have great videos, with great claims. They claim your wallet fast. From what I've heard, 20-30K go's by fast with some of these (less than a year), this Dr "C" is included from what I've heard/learned. More than several of these guys in this state claim to "fix" your thyroid troubles for 5-10K. That's over priced robbery. So just be careful. He is somewhat of a "religious healer", I know this will offend some people, but that's a red flag to me. We can pray to whomever for free.

Autoimmune can also become an issue at any stage, so its not like he discovered this, he named it, sounds good. Yes the videos do look good too, they are interesting, not a coincidence.

I have a problem with so called Drs getting rich off sick people, regardless of how "nice and smiley" they appear. And then try to be "wholesome" about it by throwing in the "God" factor. Its like Sunday morning TV for gods sake (no pun intended).

Post Edited (astroman) : 9/17/2016 9:06:17 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2016 3:39 AM (GMT 0)
Great discussion!

I've been getting LDI since February. I am not sure it's working for B/B/B, but the EBV LDI knocked EBV out. It's gone from my system, lymph nodes virtually disappeared to normal size within 2 weeks. Also, the Candida/Mold LDI completely eradicated my mold allergies; however, I don't know about Candida. Although, come to think of it, I used to vibrate everytime I ate carbs and now that isn't happening anymore...hmmmm.

The LDI for B/B/B - I feel like it hasn't done much. Each time I get a shot, I flare for about a week. AT my last appointment, my doctor said to go off antibiotics and that's all I need to kick this latest new strain of Babesia that popped up but I don't think he got the right dose yet. The first time, my reaction was really bad, but I think it awakened the Babesia because I was 95% cured. This last dose they lowered it and I'm not doing so great. So, I don't know what to say.

I am also on the Nosodes so.....IDK! My LLMD says I have an auto-immune component to my illness, so I think that means that that is only one part of the equation.

The Nosodes are from a company called DesBios. You take a couple of drops. I herx on it. My question is if the LDI is supposed to quiet the immune system and the DesBios is supposed to help the immune system recognize the critters, then aren't they working against each other? I need to ask at my next appointment.
Posted 9/18/2016 4:03 AM (GMT 0)
Astroman - Yeah I was just watching his talk on lyme amd autoimmune, I haven't researched him as a Doctor or what his treatments are (although I think he uses a rife machine).

I just found it interesting because I've never heard anyone refer to lyme as an autoimmune disorder before.
Posted 9/18/2016 4:20 AM (GMT 0)
I agree he has interesting videos. It sounded like you were a possible client, guess not, my bad. He also uses rife which is legally difficult as a "Dr" in this state.

He's local to my state, so I know of him as you figured out.

Yes, they used to call lyme an autoimmune disease in the 80's.

Its not, but can cause autoimmune disorders, Hashimoto low thyroid is the common one. Sometimes it can go away with lyme treatment.

There are so many opinions on the science/immune response from lyme that its hard to navigate, its all good guessing at this point.
Posted 9/18/2016 4:25 AM (GMT 0)
What is this ld1? Nosoles? So lost.
Posted 9/18/2016 5:18 AM (GMT 0)
QUESTIONS: Thoughts on IVIG and Stem-cells helping Chronic Borrelia Burgdorferi and Borrelia Burgdorferi Arthritis?

And for those who walk around with B. Burgdorferi asymptomatically, they probably do not have many spirochetes shedding blebs. Might they have many cystic forms and their immune system is keeping them in dormancy or is an asymptomatic state merely a TH2 dominant TH1/TH2 differentiation and a favoring environment for the reproduction of bacteria and the dissemination of infection? In my understanding, Borrelia Burgdorferi bacteria like to manipulate cytokines. In joint fluid they purposely elevate IL-10 anti-inflammatory cytokine, which would help to RELIEVE arthritis symptoms but would increase spirochete load. However, low IL-10 levels in joint fluid would lead to arthritic symptoms but a markedly less spirochete load. IL-10 is noted to suppress immune system response if elevated.

So feeling better symptom wise might not indicate an eradication of the infection and very well could indicate a dissemination of the infection if treatment was not done appropriately. So, B. Burgdorferi likes to elevate anti-inflammatory cytokines and manipulate the TH1/TH2 differentiation to a TH2 dominance in the most general sentience. Of course, TH2 dominance would help to relieve arthritis symptoms, especially in late stage infections with MS like symptoms. But this would also lead to a welcoming environment for the future spreading of infection.

So, a lot of the later debilitating symptoms involving arthritis are just that. T-cell cytokines, natural killer cells and a strong immune system fighting the bacteria but of course the question becomes, have they already lost the battle?

Post Edited (birthdaysuit) : 9/17/2016 11:25:52 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 9/18/2016 7:34 AM (GMT 0)

jennydancingfish said...
What is this ld1? Nosoles? So lost.

LDI = Low Dose Immunotherapy

Take a look here: www.betterhealthguy.com/ldi
Posted 9/18/2016 1:22 PM (GMT 0)
Yes, you can phone skype with Dr. V in Alaska for $500. Takes awhile to get in (3-6 months). If you join the Facebook LDI group I think they have a list of docs by state. I had one in Ohio, then skyped with Dr. V. He's put out quite a few youtube videos now, I think 9 or so on the subject. Here's a link to the first one, they should answer most of your quesitons:

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=134_GUbC2YI
Posted 9/18/2016 4:05 PM (GMT 0)

birthdaysuit said...
And for those who walk around with B. Burgdorferi asymptomatically, they probably do not have many spirochetes shedding blebs. Might they have many cystic forms and their immune system is keeping them in dormancy or is an asymptomatic state merely a TH2 dominant TH1/TH2 differentiation and a favoring environment for the reproduction of bacteria and the dissemination of infection? In my understanding, Borrelia Burgdorferi bacteria like to manipulate cytokines. In joint fluid they purposely elevate IL-10 anti-inflammatory cytokine, which would help to RELIEVE arthritis symptoms but would increase spirochete load. However, low IL-10 levels in joint fluid would lead to arthritic symptoms but a markedly less spirochete load. IL-10 is noted to suppress immune system response if elevated.

So feeling better symptom wise might not indicate an eradication of the infection and very well could indicate a dissemination of the infection if treatment was not done appropriately. So, B. Burgdorferi likes to elevate anti-inflammatory cytokines and manipulate the TH1/TH2 differentiation to a TH2 dominance in the most general sentience. Of course, TH2 dominance would help to relieve arthritis symptoms, especially in late stage infections with MS like symptoms. But this would also lead to a welcoming environment for the future spreading of infection.

So, a lot of the later debilitating symptoms involving arthritis are just that. T-cell cytokines, natural killer cells and a strong immune system fighting the bacteria but of course the question becomes, have they already lost the battle?

And this is why I am mainly just reading these threads on this - as I tried to live my life with Lyme undiagnosed, I had periods of very minor symptoms and lived nearly a "normal" life (although I never got rid of all the symptoms) - and yet when I started treating, all manner of havoc broke out in my body. I learned to support and detox my body and things went well - until I got reinfected while living in another area of the US (here in Arkansas, whereas my previous infections came from the West Coast).

I'm not sure what this all means, so I'm still trying to learn....
Posted 9/18/2016 6:42 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler how did you get reinfected?
Posted 9/18/2016 6:52 PM (GMT 0)
I had healed my infections, but had a massive amount of family stress (FIL with end stage Alz moved in with us, no help from other family members - then my Mom moved cross country to live with/near us for 2 years) and my adrenals crashed hard, and took my thyroid down with it. It took me a year to find a doctor that wanted to do more than just remove my thyroid and start treatments.

It was during this time that I was in town (dang it!!!) and was bit by a tick, under my left breast. I swear I couldn't find a bathroom quick enough!! But it was too late, a few weeks later, I started having symptoms again, even though the tick was attached less than 25 minutes - I didn't want to just flip my shirt up in the parking lot, but that was next!! LOL!

I went into immediate denial, so my infection went untreated for about 6 weeks and then I finally came around - and order herbs. Another 3 weeks waiting for them all to come in and I started back in treatment again - and I'm still here.
Posted 9/18/2016 6:58 PM (GMT 0)
wow Traveler....awful....
Posted 9/18/2016 7:05 PM (GMT 0)
It's been a ride!! smilewinkgrin Some days all I can do is hang on other days I'm a warrior. LOL!
Posted 9/18/2016 7:24 PM (GMT 0)
Yeah I picture you like one of the Walkiryes from Norse mythology.
Posted 9/18/2016 7:53 PM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
Yeah I picture you like one of the Walkiryes from Norse mythology.


smhair LOL!! I wish!!! I'm sure a few doctors see me that way though! Ha ha ha!!! I don't take kindly to being told that this is all in my head, or I should stay off the internet by doctors that can't seem to do their job!

And I do get a bit (LOL!) protective over other Lyme patients, particularly those that are really struggling. I've lived a lot of years really struggling myself.
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