HealingWell
Search Close Search
☰

Back for the fight- need some advice on protocol, Buhners, Chronic Tonic or Abx?

Support Forums
>
Lyme Disease
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12
❬ ❬ Previous Thread |Next Thread ❭ ❭
Posted 10/9/2016 1:01 AM (GMT 0)
Hi everyone,

Knock on wood I have been feeling better today. I know that I will have ups and downs, but as of right now I in my complete senses want some advice on what protocol to start next.

My experience so far-

2 months of Doxy starting June- felt the worst ever, but I also was coming off of my worst symptoms. LLMD clinically diagnosed me with Lyme in combo with my tick bite in 2010

Then started Cats Claw as wanted something else other than antibiotics, but it was a brand I think Natures Way from amazon, don't know how reputable

Weaned off of it as the symptoms started reappearing and went on Ceftin which I have been on since September.

Now I did a little research and there were a few protocols that intrigued me. First is obviously the Buhners protocol, something I want to try but thinking about the expense makes me think I should just go for the core LB protocol to save money, would that be enough??

Next I looked into the past and came up on various posts detailing Traveler's recovery using Chronic Tonic formula. I know she brewed it into a tea. I am thinking of ordering a bottle from misty meadow herbs website to try it and see how I do. If I do well I can order the herbs like Traveler and go from there. I know Traveler said the tax doesn't work for all but willing to give it a shot.

Last is of course straight up continuation of antibiotics with two or three added together. Today was the first day in a month or so where I felt somewhat normal and I didn't take any antibiotics today, just Japanese Knotweed which came in yesterday after 3 weeks.

So help me god and everyone here, what protocol to go for. I don't have a lot of funds but I want to invest in the protocol that will help the most. I know it's hard to say what works for everyone as all are different but I am looking for opinions from people who used tx and healed from them.
Posted 10/9/2016 2:00 AM (GMT 0)
I'd say continue on ceftin abx as a core, and focus on detox, and inflamation. if something works for you, keep it in the mix (Japanese knotweed?). Buhner is a good read, even if you don't or partially follow it, or can't buy all the herbs, because it gives a broader perspective of the areas you need to address.

I'm working with an LLMD and have my abx core, but I'm also complementing with Buhner, my detox, addressing biofilm, and gut health on my own.

Now, to answer your question: It depends. you will need to find out if your worst symtoms are due to inflamation, toxins, deficiencies etc. What is the key symptom you'd like to alleviate and work on that first?

How long were you on Cat claw? could you have been herxing? what dose did you start it at?


Caramba
Posted 10/9/2016 2:05 AM (GMT 0)
from a $ perspective a bottle of andiographis cost me 6.77 so it was a no brainer to at least try it.

if you see some herbs help you, learning to do your own tinctures, seems to lower costs as well.
Posted 10/9/2016 2:40 AM (GMT 0)
Hi caramba,

I would love to do an antibiotic and herbal mix but one of the threads here stated that the herbs in Buhner protocol, when mixed with antibiotic could inhibit or exaggerate the anti microbial effects. I think it has something to do with the effectivity in Liver.
I was in Cars Claw for 3 weeks. I thought I was doing well but symptoms returned
Posted 10/9/2016 2:51 AM (GMT 0)
I did abx for a month and only felt great the first 3 weeks -this is when I deluded myself it was only a bad dream and abx was the TRUE cure-
I endured abx, and finished week four , despite feeling I was poisoning myself
Then fell apart on that last week of July.....I have never felt great again.
I have been on Buhner core protocol for 7 full weeks now. By October end I should be on Buhner full suggested dosage.

If you ask me if I see difference, I say no really. I feel like I never treated lyme. I never felt good again like those first 3 weeks of July.
Posted 10/9/2016 2:53 AM (GMT 0)
@ Caramba....where did you buy the bottle of andrographis at $6.99? I paid 12.99 for 1oz of liquid andrographis.
Posted 10/9/2016 2:55 AM (GMT 0)
Same here artermix. I feel good initially, certainly did with Ceftin and then it went downhill.
Posted 10/9/2016 2:59 AM (GMT 0)

sam12 said...
Hi caramba,

I would love to do an antibiotic and herbal mix but one of the threads here stated that the herbs in Buhner protocol, when mixed with antibiotic could inhibit or exaggerate the anti microbial effects. I think it has something to do with the effectivity in Liver.
I was in Cars Claw for 3 weeks. I thought I was doing well but symptoms returned

Sam - I'm pretty sure that Ceftin isn't on the list. That is one I feel comfortable taking with the herbals.

- But, Rifampin, biaxin are two that could be affected.

I'm wondering if Ceftin is responsible for your good day today....maybe keep it going for a little longer...see if this trend continues?
Posted 10/9/2016 3:05 AM (GMT 0)
Sam12....for me to keep up with abx and herbal it was too much. I was taking 4 capsules of amoxy 4 times a day....and the probiotics and the herbs......
At this point I need more proof that they both can work together and one is not being hindered by the other.
I was taking Euleothero with amoxicillin the first 15 days...and I was feeling great. I was on cloud 9!!! Then ran out of Euleothero and figured it was superfluous anyway....did only abx.

Try what is comfortable for you.
Posted 10/9/2016 3:13 AM (GMT 0)
Girlie, you are probably right, it's probably Ceftin making the difference. So strange though on the day I stop it I feel somewhat good


artermix, hmm guess I will have to experiment and see.
Posted 10/9/2016 3:14 AM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
Sam12....for me to keep up with abx and herbal it was too much. I was taking 4 capsules of amoxy 4 times a day....and the probiotics and the herbs......
At this point I need more proof that they both can work together and one is not being hindered by the other.
I was taking Euleothero with amoxicillin the first 15 days...and I was feeling great. I was on cloud 9!!! Then ran out of Euleothero and figured it was superfluous anyway....did only abx.

Try what is comfortable for you.


Artermix - how much amoxy were you taking daily? 16 capsules? were they 500 mg caps?
Posted 10/9/2016 3:22 AM (GMT 0)
yes girlie...4 capsules each of 250 mg.... 4000 mg total

PS every 6 hrs....around the clock so to maximize effect....but you said it had short life....so I wasted time. The LLMD never said a thing on that.
Posted 10/9/2016 5:51 AM (GMT 0)
oh, okay 250 mg...you had me worried there. (mine were 500 mg each)

Every 6 hours? so you were getting up and taking them during the night?

No, it wasn't a waste of time. 4,000 mg total and taking it 4 X daily - I'm sure it did 'something'.


I've seen some non-LL Dr.'s prescribe 500 mg 3 X daily. Now that might be a waste of time.
Posted 10/9/2016 3:34 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler, what is your opinion on Chronic Tonic from misty meadows??
Have others tried this therapy?

What if I mixed musty meadow protocol plus LB core from Buhners? Would that be too much of the same stuff??
Posted 10/9/2016 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
Hey, Sam!! I'm so glad to hear you are back in the fight!!! Way to go!!

Yes, I would think it would be too much, since many of the herbs in the CT are part of Buhner's protocol. Here's the thread where I was breaking it down so people could see exactly how I made the CT as a tea:
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=30&m=3244272

Here is a search I just did for posts talking about the Chronic Tonic. Some have seen really good results that I have talked to, but for the most part, Buhner's has more success. I'm thinking it either has to do with the different strain(s) of Lyme that we can have, or it has to do with a combination of the strain(s) we have and our genetic makeup. But, we won't know that until the testing for the different strains of Lyme improves tremendously.

Here's that search: /goo.gl/E0gzx9

I used Chronic Tonic because back in 2008/09 when I was looking for alternative Lyme treatments, this was one of the only ones I found online that even sounded like it might work - and to be perfectly honest, I was shocked when it did work for me! Between having had these infections for over 40 years by that time and the fact that I had abx treatments fail me, I wasn't sure healing was even possible for me. What a wonderful surprise when I started herxing, brought that under control and started improving for the very first time in over 45 years.
Posted 10/9/2016 4:25 PM (GMT 0)
Howdy Sam. I felt nothing on abx. Not worse nor better. But.... I only did it for about 6 weeks. I moved on to herbs.

Herbs did not make an improvement for me for a long time - I mean months. I still got roving and new symptoms. I just stuck to the program and kept on keeping on.

I got tired and constantly thought I would be on herbs for the rest of my life. I started buying in huge bottles.

Finally, I noticed that I did not have a head ache for a couple of days. Then my ears were not hurting. My muscles didn't ache. My feet - I could walk on them again.

This was a very slow process and now? Have not taken an herb since June 27th 2016! I'm still not used to being well yet. I still watch my diet, water intake and getting good sleep. And, I am still nervous with any twinge or twerk in my body.

Just wanted you to know to hang in there. Stick with your game plan. I really made a plan and stuck with it to the letter. I did not get fancy and try and create a cure. I figured too many had tried that. And, I kept it as simple as I could.
Posted 10/9/2016 4:34 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Traveler,

Yes, I am back due to the continued support that you all have provided. I can't thank you all enough for it.
Thank you for the links there. I feel like the chronic tonic herbs have more elements than Buhners and would cost less in the long run. That would help out as I have already spent so much on doctor visits, testings and supplements. Traveler do you know if any of the herbs cross the blood brain barrier?
Posted 10/9/2016 4:41 PM (GMT 0)
Hi PeteZa,

You all provide so much positivity and motivation here to get better. It's amazing reading all of your healing stories and saying to myself that I can heal as well. I did read one of your other posts where you detailed your plan. What website did you use to order your herbs?
Posted 10/9/2016 4:42 PM (GMT 0)
@ Girlie.....yes I woke up two times in the middle of the night.....once for amoxy and 3 hrs later for probiotics. I still do that with my binder.
Posted 10/9/2016 5:01 PM (GMT 0)

sam12 said...
Hi Traveler,

Yes, I am back due to the continued support that you all have provided. I can't thank you all enough for it.
Thank you for the links there. I feel like the chronic tonic herbs have more elements than Buhners and would cost less in the long run. That would help out as I have already spent so much on doctor visits, testings and supplements. Traveler do you know if any of the herbs cross the blood brain barrier?

Well, I'm so very glad you are back!!! I thought I was completely doomed when abx failed me, but I chose to go against the grain and try using herbs only to heal - I was only the 2nd person on this forum at that time to even consider herbal only treatments - and yet it worked wonders for me.

Well, according to Buhner's 2nd edition of Healing Lyme, Japanese Knotweed can stop the bacteria from entering the brain due to it's effects on the endothelial cells and junctions. But he goes into great detail about which herbs will be helpful for different "brain symptoms". I would encourage you to get his book just for the information that is provided about the different herbs - as you noted, there are many of the same herbs in the Chronic Tonic as is in Buhner's protocols.

A word though - Misty Meadows claims (or used to) that the Chronic Tonic is all that's needed for all the infections. I did not find that to be true and had to address Bartonella and Babesia separately, but I did not have to address RMSF, Brucella, Anaplasma, Ehrlichia and others separately.
Posted 10/9/2016 9:05 PM (GMT 0)
Having improvements with bvt rife and abx and herbs with iv therapies ...do it all
Posted 10/10/2016 11:22 PM (GMT 0)
Traveler, I ordered the Chronic Tonic but I also ordered Houttunya?sp. I know it helped you for Bartonella and I feel like I have that, so hopefully that helps. I also ordered alka seltzer gold for detox, D Limonene(astroman suggested), red root and hoping to order rishi green tea(Huddie suggested). All in combination with Burbur, Pau D arco tea and lemon water throughout day, hopefully all help as that is the plan of attack as of now.

bluelyme, I still dont know where to get bee venom therapy here in NY, I dont know any providers and I am too scared to order a hive myself hehe. I am horrible at taking care of myself, I dont know how I will do with bees haha. Wish more people offered this therapy. How do you get the IV herbs? I dont think my LLMD provides that? Who can I go to? He did order me zithromax on my insistence but I dont know if I should go back to antibiotics again as I also ordered all herbs. I have a full bottle of doxy and ceftin staring at me.
Posted 10/10/2016 11:54 PM (GMT 0)
You can order bees in a box ..they come in the mail..you would need bottle of kids benadryl ,a epi pen and 3000 -5000 mg of vit c ...tell your doc you had a allergy to strawberrys or peanuts ..the llmd may script it ...you can get venom in a bottle (venex 20) apitronic services ..doc must order it ...or dom ...too but you have to mix procaine with it and use needles ....live bees give there chi.......iv ozone ,iv silver ,iv h202 is likely offered at a integrative doc or alternative health center .i am getting iv abx thru infuserve and doing them at home via a smart port i got installed in march ... (insurance covered with pdn dx ) a friend has a nurse admin with butterfly needle 3x a week ..i just got tired of being stuck ...
Posted 10/11/2016 1:18 AM (GMT 0)

artermix said...
I did abx for a month and only felt great the first 3 weeks -this is when I deluded myself it was only a bad dream and abx was the TRUE cure-
I endured abx, and finished week four , despite feeling I was poisoning myself
Then fell apart on that last week of July.....I have never felt great again.
I have been on Buhner core protocol for 7 full weeks now. By October end I should be on Buhner full suggested dosage.

If you ask me if I see difference, I say no really. I feel like I never treated lyme. I never felt good again like those first 3 weeks of July.

It took me about 3 months before I started noticing small changes (less numbness, limbs not going dead numb during sleep, less twitching, better sleep, etc)
Posted 10/11/2016 1:44 AM (GMT 0)
sam, so happy to hear that you're gonna fight!

I think that if your resources are scarce, you should opt for the combo which is not financially overwhelming.
I will tell you why. I have financial difficulties (not only because of Lyme, but also some family issues) and boy does it put stress on me. I think it is seriously hindering my treatment.
So I would advise you if to choose protocol which is affordable.
✚ New Topic ✚ Reply
12