muscle pain/tendonitis

Yes, muscle and tendon pain are a common symptoms of lyme

www.anapsid.org/lyme/symptoms/

I think that symptom list is also in our "New to Lyme" thread.

Achilles tenderness could also be from bartonella. At some point, you should consider adding in bart herbs, if you don't get full results with lyme only herbs.
Although, Japanese knotweed is not only in the lyme protocol, it's also part of the bart protocol.

Are you detoxing regularly? Multiple methods?

OK thanks guys. I have also what seems like uncurable dermatitis where no amount of anti-fungual or topical tea tree/vinegar/coconut helps. Wondering if that is related.

I am going with capsules. It is from Green Dragon and starting dose (3 capsules) is:
500 mg of JK, Cats Claw, Andographis, Sarsaparilla(110mg), Dandelion(110mg). Seems like a very small dose of each.

astroman,

Nice to hear from a fellow myofascial sufferer and it is by far the biggest contributor to my poor quality of life. The dandruff, ED and sleep problems are bad, but chronic 24/7 pain is sometimes unbearable. Sadly because it is mostly in the neck/shoulders/trap it often crawls up the neck and created tension headaches.

I found Paleo to be a great change for me as it "cools" the inflammation, however there are so many days where pain is flared up that I wonder whether it makes any difference.

I have spend thousands on massage, chiro, PT, etc. Nothing works.

The reason I have not been here for 5 years is because I gave up on the idea I have Lyme, figured it was something else. Now I am back after getting a clean bill of health from every doctor I ever saw. According to all MDs all major disease is ruled out, so what else is left?

astro, how were you able to kill the bugs? How do you know you killed them? Were you able to sense you were getting better in time? Can you point me to some posts of yours where you might have documented your progression?

Fancy that, I always felt worse after massages. People love them and I continued to do them thinking I needed to stretch my tight fascia - but it never actually helped.

What is the biological explanation here? Any sources?

rk - "I have spend thousands on massage, chiro, PT, etc. Nothing works."

- I did too, but learned the very aggressive (pressure) of active release and my own very aggressive myofacial release works when done repeatedly.

www.activerelease.com/europe/providerSearch.asp - it was developed in the late 80's by an engineer turned chiro, makes sense to me. Chiros do this, the trick is to find one who has the longest appts. 10 min wont do it. I found a PT who does this a hour a time. It works then.

After you get the muscles and tendons softened and lengthened again, then you slowly implement muscle rebuilding, I had to figure out this order by trial and error. I did a lot of my own own daily pressure release work in between ART appts. I looked at you tube and invented new moves that work. If I knew how to make decent quality videos, I'd put some on you tube. I'm a retard with all the new electronic stuff. If this were 1800's, Id be a mnt man LOL

So sense you were not reading this forum for the last three years, you didnt see and of my in detail muscle pain relief posts..(?)

I wish this forum could save each of our posts somehow in our account thingie.

I had many starting in 2013 or 2014, If you just use our google forum search and put in myofacial astroman, you will find some. They were all separate, so no one long continual thread.

There is no solid proof my bugs are all dead. My symptoms just got better slower than most peoples. I did the leaky gut thing on my own 8 years ago, then seen a LLMD a few years ago who did quite a few rotated ABX's for one year total, but I had breaks so it was like 1 1/2 years I guess. I herxed 5 moths one period!

There was no one day I awoke and felt immediately better. I am sceptacle when I read this in others posts sometimes. BUT, I got this in the early 90's all symptoms with bullseye rash at one point, Drs blew it off. Being an outdoor addict since childhood, I had many ticks on me before 20 yrs old. Longer you have it, the more it does long term.

Im better, not 100% and I'm not going to exaggerate and say I'm 100%, since I'm not. Positivity is good, honesty is better.

I have continuously tested for other diseases too (and weeded out stupid Drs), nothing else so far but my autoimmune hashimoto that might be from lyme too.

Oh- dandruff can be a candida thing. So is athletes foot.

I do not have candida, had a very extensive stool sample test - but another test confirmed leaky gut. I also eat zero added sugar and almost no grains. Yet my dandruff now is worse than ever before

I have tried ART, trigger point therapy, posture training, rolfing, etc. Nothing seems to solve persistent tendonitis, even cortizone shots that everyone swears by have literally zero effect on me.

What I find the most exasperating about all of this lyme stuff is the time factor. 1.5 years on antibiotics? 1 year on herbs? How in the world do people continue taking things for that long without knowing what may be the effect.

Due to my leaky gut I just cannot experiment with such a long duration of antibiotics and I suspect my gut is unhealthy from popping ibuprofen for 10 years straight to manage my pain.

Going to search the forum, but I just want *some* indication, *any* indication that I am on the right track.

julymorning said...

rkd80 said...
astroman,

Nice to hear from a fellow myofascial sufferer and it is by far the biggest contributor to my poor quality of life. The dandruff, ED and sleep problems are bad, but chronic 24/7 pain is sometimes unbearable. Sadly because it is mostly in the neck/shoulders/trap it often crawls up the neck and created tension headaches.

I found Paleo to be a great change for me as it "cools" the inflammation, however there are so many days where pain is flared up that I wonder whether it makes any difference.

I have spend thousands on massage, chiro, PT, etc. Nothing works.

The reason I have not been here for 5 years is because I gave up on the idea I have Lyme, figured it was something else. Now I am back after getting a clean bill of health from every doctor I ever saw. According to all MDs all major disease is ruled out, so what else is left?

astro, how were you able to kill the bugs? How do you know you killed them? Were you able to sense you were getting better in time? Can you point me to some posts of yours where you might have documented your progression?

This is the sort of pain that plagued me most throughout the last 33 years. It was linked to Fibromyalgia, which was my earliest diagnosis. Anti inflammatory meds never helped for long, and only 13 years ago finally got some relief from Darbocet, before they pulled that from the market. I moved on to Oxycodone/APAP.

Now that I'm delving into herbal for Lyme, etc., I'm getting some relief from Japanese Knotweed tincture.
I am finally at full dose and must be herxing just a little because I'm not getting the inflammation reduction as I was half way to this point. But that could be due to this artic chill we're having right now. The baro.pressure is astronomical. Which is contrary to facts but I still swear it causes me bone crushing pain.

Something people should be aware of when taking Japanese Knotweed is that it contains anthraquinones which are similar in structure to the quinolones used in Cipro, levaquin and other fluoroquinolones, and seems to cause the same sort of tendon issues in some people. I was floxed eight years ago and am well aware of the tendon problems that caused. When I started taking Japaneese Knotweed last summer the same type of tendon/muscle pain started, and when I stopped the Knotweed, the tendon/muscle issues went away, though it took about four months - I was on the knotweed for about two months at full dosage. A number of other people have reported similar problems with Knotweed, and while the knotweed seemed to really help other symptoms, I wouldn't touch the stuff again due to it's quinolone like properties. Unfortunately, the replacement herb that Buhner recommends as an alternative to Knotweed, Stephania, contains quinolines which are the basis of quinolones,
and would likely cause the same problems for susceptible people.

Odd. But then if you have done reduced your "critter" level, that certainty is part of the problem.

Did you have any lab tests that pointed to lyme or any other infections? Thyroid T3 levels are also a more contributor to muscle heath than T4 is. This is why "meats head" lifters sometimes took T3 in the past for huge muscle gains- at the expense of heart stress since they didnt have low thyroid to start out with. You might want a spectrocell nutrient test too. Its $400, but shows whats in your cells as opposed to whats in blood.

Some ART practitioners where just too wimpy on the pressure part for me. Several mentioned my pain limit and expected pressure was trough the roof compared to other people.

I did very aggressive triggerpoint release too with a homemade trigger point tool, sometimes putting all my 175 lbs into it. Most of the stuff on you-tube, is , again, too wimpy in the pressure department to have any effect on me. BUT I learned from it. I just got a firmer rubber rooler with little spiky things vs the wimpy smooth ones, it helps.

In very problematic areas, I actually did my own "tissue restructuring", by re-injuring the area till black and blue and painfull for several days then less pressure days after with hourly stretching. This done the right way is really the last and most aggressive tissue healing method one can do. Very few places that do this, I have seen info with pics online. A chiro / ART guy helped me out with this as an experiment, and it worked.

Orthos wanted to operate on my shoulders, both are 90% improved after about two years of muscle tendon/ trigger point/ ART/ muscle/tissue restructuring methods - I went all out. It took 7 months of aggressive glute work to get my left hip better. I can now work out and even started to "max out" with no pain the following days.

"All lab work is clean, no inflammation markers"

What was your CD-57 (lyme and other stuff), C4a and C3a (lyme and mold)? - Additional markers LLMD's use.

Did you get any of the spendy lyme specific blood tests, even though its known that antibodies dissappear in long term cases. Then antibodies get their butts kicked and give up, with lyme, not so with various co-infections.

You never had nuero issues, sleep issues included?

As you know, usually lyme and what ever co-infections also present some nuero stuff, not just body pain. My nuero stuff got better after ABX.

Ever get any alergy specific testing?

Hmm, I never did those types of fancy tests. No mold tests for example. If I was exposed it would have been 2 decades ago, would the CD57 test show anything?

I have neuro issues: sleep is terrible. get bouts of sadness/depression (but i swear its because of my chronic pain) and anxiety, but the anxiety is just a character trait of mine, my mom is the same. Can't pin everything on lyme right?

I tried to get allergy specific testing, but they refused said that my symptoms would not manifest on a skin test.

bdavis: There is no mold in environment here, I have moved 4 times since my symptoms started and they never let up. Never had mold IgG testing.

Those 3 tests I mentioned are not perfect but are still worth it if one has no exact evidence of whats going on, helps in diagnosis.

No sleep- get a 24 adrenal saliva test.

your functional Dr knows all these- or should.

many people find they get better when after treating for lyme even if the standard Dr lyme western blot is neg.

Igenix wetsern blot with multiple bands is a little over 200.

other special lyme tests are 400-500.

Post Edited (astroman) : 1/8/2017 10:01:31 AM (GMT-7)

If youve been with these symtoms for decades, ELISA and Western Blot will be neg. Igenix might be too, BUT there is an "iffy" notation on igenix that shows up with old infections. forget what its called, indertermined or something.

I would suggest those others too cd-57, c4a,c3a, adrenal saliva. You need to know whats going on. Any LLMD uses these. Of those the cd-57 is the only one that is questionable as they are finding many odd ills cause this to lower, even autoimmune and old viruses that are still in you- the many herpes ones , EBV ect.