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CD57 and IgG

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Posted 2/14/2017 11:01 AM (GMT 0)
Ηi,

Sorry for my writing,but english isn't my native language....

After 6,5 years of als-type symptoms i decided to test for lyme disease.

I tested for IgG Borrelia antibodies and came back negative (5AU/mL) but i have low CD8 CD57+ (i have 18 and normal range is 50-338) and CD4 CD57+ (i have 7 and normal range is 16-329) and also low NK CD57+, i have 1 and normal range is 60-360.
Another abnomarlity of the blood test is that i have a little increase of B cells.

I appreciate if anyone can help me wtih the interpretation of these test cause the fear of als is here.

Post Edited (Passenger) : 2/14/2017 5:40:56 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/14/2017 1:55 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Passenger!
Welcome to our community! I'm so glad you found us.

​If you haven't ​yet​, it would be helpful for you to start with reading through the thread at the top of the forum titled,"New to Lyme?...Start here!!", as it is packed full of important information, symptom lists, helpful links and pdf's, how to detox when one has these infections, information on probiotics and much more.

​ And, here's another good place to find helpful detoxing routines: ​http://www.tiredoflyme.com/detox-methods.html​​

​ I'm not familiar with the type of Borrelia test you had done - sorry I can't be of any help with that. Does it have some sort of reference range?

The low CD57 ranges can be caused by a number of things, unfortunately. No one knows yet what all affects the CD57 range, but we do know that if the person has Lyme it can either be high or low and the person can still have Lyme. So it's not a good indicator of a Borrelia infection on it's own.

There are other things you can do though. The one that I like is Horowitz's questionnaire:
lymeontario.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Horowitz-Questionnaire.pdf

I also know that there are ALS patients that actually have Lyme and can really find improvements in their symptoms - if not total healing - once the underlying infection is dealt with.

Please do continue to ask questions and investigate this possibility. We are here to help as we can!
Posted 2/14/2017 2:15 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for your reply.

As i said to my previous post i have many symptoms for several years....
All the neuro doctors said no als despite some abnormalities in emg test that my lumbar problems cause it.
After these years i'm still functional with serious problems,so i decided to see a holistic doctor who knows about lyme disease.
She ordered IgG test and told me that there is a possibility of 75% false negative result and taking into account the CD57 test,we gonna have a picture of borrelia...Ηowever she wants the test for borellia antibodies be repeated every 2-3 months and sometime we ''catch'' it.
When she saw the immunophenotypic of peripheral blood test results and especially CD57,is sure that i have lyme disease.... confused

I'm really frustrated and scary too,cause i watch my body collapsing all these years and i don't know the reason and what i must fight.

Any suggestion will be important for me.
Posted 2/14/2017 2:22 PM (GMT 0)
Start with taking a look at the "New to Lyme?" thread if you haven't. It's got a lot of good information in it.

Do you know if you will be using pharmaceutical abx (antibiotics), herbs, or ???? That will help us help you.

You will need to have a good diet - no sugar, low carbs, very little to no processed foods. This will help avoid possible yeast issues and may also help your body deal with the infections until you get them under control.

You will also need to start detoxing. We do have some good information on detoxing in our "New to Lyme?" thread, as well as the excellent article that I linked in my previous post.

Lyme is a very serious infection if it's not taken care of right away - but many recover, even from serious symptoms, so hang in there and work your way through the treatments. We are here to help in whatever way we can.

And, this might help lift your spirits a bit, it's a story about a Dr that was diagnosed with ALS and healed when he sought out treatment for Lyme disease: /www.lymedisease.org/372/
Posted 2/14/2017 2:39 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you so much...
I have already read many of these (new to lyme section and Dr.Matz story)and i'm trying to follow the instructions of detox and nice diet style.

As the doc said i'm gonna have treatment with herbs but i'm gonna see and another doctor who is infection disease's specialist to interpret these blood test results.

Am thinking to the right way?

Undiagnosed thing,sucks...
Posted 2/14/2017 2:44 PM (GMT 0)
Well, if the infectious disease doctors where you live are anything like the ones in the U.S., they won't be of much help. They don't recognize these infections for being what they are, believe that they are hard to get and easy to treat - so just be prepared to have them not help.

Do you know what herbal treatment you will be using? A couple of popular ones are Buhner's and Cowden's - although detoxing and balancing out the body systems (to make sure they are all working well) go a long way to getting prepared for treatments.
Posted 2/14/2017 2:59 PM (GMT 0)
One of my friend recommends the doctor and by that she said,has knowledge of the lyme disease...So i wish to be lucky.

I don't know yet what the herbal tretment includes.
Posted 2/14/2017 3:30 PM (GMT 0)
Well, I do hope that you are lucky with that doc too!! Please do let us know how that appointment goes!
Posted 2/14/2017 3:57 PM (GMT 0)
Be sure that i'll inform you.

Thank you again for your support.
Posted 2/14/2017 4:10 PM (GMT 0)
One last question....
Is there any scientific publication that explains the role of CD57 and the causes of increase or decrease in blood test?
Posted 2/14/2017 4:57 PM (GMT 0)
These are the two best articles I've come across for explaining the CD57:
www.lymebook.com/CD57-test.pdf


lymemd.blogspot.com/2009/01/cd57.html
Posted 2/14/2017 4:58 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you so much
Posted 2/14/2017 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Passenger - I just wanted to also welcome you to our community!


I hope you stick around....read posts, ask questions...or just come her to vent when you're having a rough day!
Posted 2/14/2017 5:00 PM (GMT 0)
Of course!! smile
Posted 2/14/2017 5:05 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Hi Passenger - I just wanted to also welcome you to our community!


I hope you stick around....read posts, ask questions...or just come her to vent when you're having a rough day!

Girlie,thank you for your kind words and i appreciate so yours and Traveler interesting.
Posted 2/15/2017 10:45 AM (GMT 0)
Hi again,

Last night i had a phone call from my holistic doctor.
She told me that is very happy cause we finally got some answers about my health problems all these years.
She also referred me some herb meds and as i saw she follows Buhner's protocol,mainly from green dragon botanicals with some alternates...For example she proposed Lugol 5%, Rizol Gamma and Zeta and CDS/MMS detox.

My concern is,why is she so convinced that i have LD with only low CD57 and negative IgG??

Post Edited (Passenger) : 2/15/2017 7:39:01 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 2/15/2017 3:12 PM (GMT 0)
A low CD57 is thought to be from something like Lyme - a chronic infection that is systemic. Combined with your symptoms that is enough for many doctors to trial Lyme treatment to see if there is a response.

I would suggest that you start low and slow - low doses and raise them slowly so that you don't herx too bad.
Posted 2/15/2017 7:23 PM (GMT 0)
Thank you for the reply.
Tomorrow i'm gonna have a 2nd opinion from infection disease specialist...I have learned that dr. knows about LD,so i'm optimistic.

Just a question,can lyme causes retinal dettachment?
Posted 2/15/2017 7:51 PM (GMT 0)
My CD57+ NK reading was 54 and the lab I used used 100-360 range.

I can't speak on this personally as I am not an authority on anything but here is a quote from Buhner on CD57 from his book :

''.. the problem, as is usual with borrelial bacteria, is that the immune landscape alters considerably over time, with the type of bacteria, immune status, age and so on. In consequence, high CD57+ cell counts, for instance, in long-term chlamydial or mycoplasmal infections could actually stimulate the formation of cancers. During RA-type infections (commin in Lyme disease) high levels could make the condition worse as well. But in some auto-immune conditions, also common in Lyme disease, the more highly activated CD57+ cells could help resolve the condition. So, in some Lyme disease conditions it might be useful to increase CD57+ levels; in others it would be more appropriate to lower them. Thus, absolute levels of CD57+ cells as markers of immune response don't exist in a one-to-one relationship with the state of Lyme infections.

In short, in my opinion, given the increase in understanding of this NK marker, there just isn't enough data to support CD57+ cell levels as a reliable diagnostic for Lyme, chronic Lyme, or post-Lyme disease syndrome.''
Posted 3/6/2017 5:14 PM (GMT 0)
Hi again...

I came back cause i have some results of my new blood tests.
So i have negative pcr test but i'm positive for band p41 at western blot test.
I remind you that i have low CD8 CD57+ and CD4 CD57+.

Any suggestions
Posted 3/6/2017 5:20 PM (GMT 0)
you've asked for scientific papers regarding CD57, so here is a peer reviewed paper about it:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165247800003163
Posted 3/6/2017 5:50 PM (GMT 0)

Passenger said...
Just a question,can lyme causes retinal dettachment?

Actually, Lyme and Bartonella can both cause retinal detachment.
Posted 3/6/2017 5:56 PM (GMT 0)
We know that these tests rely on the body to produce antibodies and Lyme is well known to reduce the ability of the body to produce those all important antibodies - so Lyme is supposed to be a clinical diagnosis, with lab tests hopefully backing up the diagnosis, but it's not necessary for them to.

I was treated for 12 months before my body could finally produce enough antibodies for a full CDC positive Lyme test. The bacterial load of Lyme had to be reduced before my body could produce enough antibodies.

So, your practitioner may be convinced you have Lyme due to your symptoms, rather than your tests.
Posted 3/6/2017 6:06 PM (GMT 0)
With low CD8 CD57+ and CD4 CD57+ and positive band 41 at western blot test,do you think will be usefull to send blood sample to igenex?
Posted 3/6/2017 6:30 PM (GMT 0)
Passenger - your previous lyme testing was not Igenex?

If not, and you're wanting to try for a positive...or at least one or more positive bands, and also willing to pay the $210, then yes it could be useful.

So for $210 it's the Lyme Western Blot IgM and IgG.
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