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Posted 5/14/2017 3:47 PM (GMT 0)
New llmd wants to get my house in order a bit more before getting more aggressive with antimicrobial tx. He's continuing me on artemesinin and starting mc-bab-2. But, he wants to get my endocrine balanced, and detox pathways open before bringing out the big guns.

So, he put me on a new supplement called "Adreset" to treat my cortisol. Cortisol is "in range" however it's the lower quarter of the range in the morning and daytime. Come evening, , cortisol goes above range.

The Adreset contains cordyceps, panax ginseng, and rhodiola. I feel pretty good when I take it, energy is better but feel a little bit wired. I take it in the morning. Fatigue is my chief complaint and the biggest thief of functional normalcy. This stuff looks like it has potential.

I think the adreset is just raising my cortisol all of the time, rather than raising the lows and lowering the highs, thus the insomnia.

It's a double edged sword though. It's messing up my already fragile sleep. I'm needing to take doxepin to initiate and maintain sleep but this is a short term bandaid because it wants me to increase the dose every few days and I don't wanna become dependent.

Motherwort, passionflower, bacopa, melatonin, magnesium, holy basil, can't touch the insomnia. I'd been doing much better with my sleep til I started this stuff. I wish there were an herb that had an equal but opposite effect as these adaptogenics. Had some luck with medical cannabis last year but that only worked for a few months and eventually fed my anxiety and I felt near panic a few times.

So, my question is does anybody have experience with balancing adrenals using adaptogenic herbs ?

Was it a gnarly but successful process?

Do you think if I push on with the adreset, my adrenals will eventually adjust and balance out? And let me sleep?

about 10 years ago, I took ssri antidepressants for ~2 years. At the beginning, I had a similar reaction and sleep eventually normalized after I adjusted to the meds. .

Seeing llmd Wednesday to go over new labs. I've not seen them all, but tsh is a bit high @2.75. Ft4 a bit low @1.0. Haven't seen the ft3 and thyroid antibodies tests results yet. It looks like I may be also mildly hypo thyroid.

Thanks.
Best Regards,
BJD
Posted 5/14/2017 3:52 PM (GMT 0)
Oh gosh, what a balancing act..... I have not had adrenal or thyroid problems *knocks on wood*

I sure have watched my Mom try and find her balance in both of those departments and she had one heck of a time. It was a constant trial and error for her until she finally found what works.

That's the sad part. You have to try it to see if it is the one that works.
Posted 5/14/2017 3:54 PM (GMT 0)
BJD - I know that thyroid and adrenal health are interrelated. Maybe giving your thyroid the help it needs to get the FT3 in good range (You do need to see what that one is) will help with the adrenals.

I don't have any advice on how to correct the adrenals when they are a little low in one part of the day and a little high in another.

If it's messing with your sleep - I think you may need to lower it...or change...if you're not getting good sleep - that's not going to help the adrenals.
Posted 5/14/2017 4:09 PM (GMT 0)
It's a real balancing act, that's for sure!

When are you taking the adrest? Just am? If so, you will need to find a different product that doesn't make it harder for you to sleep. I am using homeopathic remedies and an adaptogenic herb to treat my adrenals (plus diet and such and I use Lidtke brand tryptophan) and homeopathic remedies to treat my thyroid (as well as diet and such). It's been a ton of trial and error, but if you keep working at it, you will find the right combinations that will allow you to sleep and yet support your thyroid and adrenals during the day.

Monitoring the hormones (adrenal and thyroid) will go a long way to helping you find the right balance, because when you first start on something, or change something, it will take weeks for your body to adjust to it all.

Hang in there!
Posted 5/14/2017 4:16 PM (GMT 0)
can the insomnia be part of herxing? just by balancing adrenals, might have an impact on the immune system kicking in a little?

if you can tolerate it, I'd say continue to see if it normalizes in a few more days if not see what the LLMD says.
Posted 5/14/2017 4:17 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
BJD - I know that thyroid and adrenal health are interrelated. Maybe giving your thyroid the help it needs to get the FT3 in good range (You do need to see what that one is) will help with the adrenals.

I don't have any advice on how to correct the adrenals when they are a little low in one part of the day and a little high in another.

If it's messing with your sleep - I think you may need to lower it...or change...if you're not getting good sleep - that's not going to help the adrenals.

Thanks Girlie and PeteZa, et al. Happy mothers day!

I can't know for sure, but I suspect the adrenal issue is largely autonomic. What else could explain those cortisol spikes? CT scan revealed no tumors.

My new llmd is very knowledgeable about endo so I'm sure this will be good diagnostic info for him when I see him Wednesday. Last year, my free testosterone was below range as well. So, I'm looking at testosterone, thyroid, and adrenal work. All these hormones are so interrelated, I'm afraid that some trial and error will be de rigeur.

Yikes, feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place sometimes.

Post Edited (BJD55) : 5/14/2017 10:24:01 AM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/14/2017 5:23 PM (GMT 0)
Hi BJD55 -

The others have shared good info. I am REALLY liking your LLMD for trying to get the endocrine functions more balanced before starting your next tx journey! I wish more did this.

In the future, try making only one change in your protocol at a time - will help you narrow down sources.

I think you should try two things - don't have the time to explain right now but I can come back to this thread tomorrow maybe.

First, try taking all of your meds and supplementation before or by dinnertime - leaving nothing for your GI to do but digest food to get ready for bed.

Then I'd take two steps:

Step 1 - immediately cut your AM Adreset dose in half. If you have no improvement within a couple days, go back to the full dose.

Step 2 - Reduce the MC-Bab-2 to just a drop or two. This is a great tincture (I love the clove taste), I think it's a little gentler than say, Rx or Byron White A-Bab. But babs likes to create insomnia issues and also likes to poke at the adrenals. So this could be a source of issues.

If no improvement within a few days, stop entirely.
If no improvement within a few days, start it up again.

Step 3: - Then I'd try troubleshooting bloodsugar levels:
Take a binder 1 hour after dinner. Then 2 hrs after the binder or right before crawling into bed (whichever is later) try eating about 2 oz of protein (chicken) + 2 oz of a good carb (while rice).

...more later - sorry

-p
Posted 5/14/2017 6:01 PM (GMT 0)
Thanks Pirouette, looks like sage advice. I have been taking curcumin, milk thistle, vitamin c, magnesium, theanine, glycine, and taurine just b4 bed. Also motherwort tincture b4 bed. Will adjust and try eating a bit as suggested b4 bed.

The binder may be problematic because I don't like to drink much after dinner, otherwise I get up 2p 2much in the night. Is 8oz h20 enough with charcoal?

Today is only day 2 of mc-bab-2. Starting slow @ just 1 drop per day for a while. I can already tell it's gentler that the a-Bab and KW Lyme Formula. I could feel endo sx 10 minutes after taking 1 drop of those. Don't feel any endo with the mc-bab-2 so far. It has motherwort in it so maybe that's gonna make it mellower. And, it's only a 1:10 ratio unlike a-bab which is 1:1.
Posted 5/14/2017 7:15 PM (GMT 0)
I restored not only my adrenals but the whole endocrine system accidentally while using Nascent Iodine for an epidydimal cyst.

I doubt you can mix it with any of the meds that are designed to do that but my energy is far better, and brain fog was completely gone after 3 months use. I started really slow and working up to a cap of 15mg daily.

Not many docs are going to recommend this over the drugs. Maybe a naturopath would tell you how you can transition safely.

I don't think it works if you continue to consume other halides (Chlorine, Fluoride including Fluoroquinelones, or Bromine in breads). It also leads to a massive detox of these materials stored in the body which can be unpredictable. I have no regrets going this route but check with your doc. Maybe he cant be the first one to recommend it but if you ask he can sanction it.
Posted 5/14/2017 8:38 PM (GMT 0)
That is great advice Pirouette. I'm going to try that for sure. I'm awaiting my adrenal results, I'll see them my next appointment with the llmd. Since I've had thyroid issues for the past year and​ a half, it wouldn't surprise me if they're shot.

Can I ask though where you got tested for your adrenals? Was it the all day spit test
Posted 5/14/2017 8:49 PM (GMT 0)

Cheetahjade said...
That is great advice Pirouette. I'm going to try that for sure. I'm awaiting my adrenal results, I'll see them my next appointment with the llmd. Since I've had thyroid issues for the past year and​ a half, it wouldn't surprise me if they're shot.

Can I ask though where you got tested for your adrenals? Was it the all day spit test


I've had 2 of these diurnal salivary cortisol tests. The cheapo one via insurance / labcorp was essentially the same results as the pharmasan labs test. The pharmasan test was their "neuro-adrenal basic" which also looked at dhea, gaba, epi, norepi, glutamate, glycine, histamine, pea, serotonin, and dopamine. That cost me about $300 out of pocket IIRC.
Yes, they were both the all day spit test.

Chicken, did you have cortisol spikes late in the day?

Post Edited (BJD55) : 5/14/2017 6:44:36 PM (GMT-6)

Posted 5/15/2017 2:08 AM (GMT 0)

BJD55 said...
The binder may be problematic because I don't like to drink much after dinner, otherwise I get up 2p 2much in the night. Is 8oz h20 enough with charcoal?

OK - glad you caught that. Yes, 8 oz should be enough w/ charcoal. Try this first:

- Move dinner an hour earlier if you can.
- As long as you think you digest food OK and don't have slow motility, an hour after dinner, take your binder + 8 oz. water
- Then the snack is the very last thing before bed plus a good pee.

Make sure you're not drinking any caffeine during the day - if you are, try keeping it all before noon - but best if you cut it out altogether. It really stresses the adrenals. And of course, no sugar.

Give this at least a wk, plus reducing the Adreset to see if you have any change in both the evening cortisol and the insomnia.

And if this works, try to get off the doxepin.

I think you're saying the the MC-Bab is not causing issues, so keep it at a low dose for now until you see improvement w/ insomnia.

And if you can maintain your progress w/ your insomnia for a good week, then try slowly increasing the Adreset.

What we need are healthy GI, balanced endocrine - adrenals/thyroid, and balanced neurotransmitters. Once one component gets imbalanced, it's really tough for the others to stay steady. And it's impossible to fix one in isolation.

So, the idea is to carefully ratchet up everything step by step, trying to focus on everything simultaneously but of course, making one change at a time. It's pretty difficult and requires time, patience and organization. The next thing you need to do in this cycle is to check thyroid, etc. You don't have to wait until everything is "fixed" before resuming Lyme & Co treatment but it will tax these systems so it also needs to start/resume slowly. But you're doing great to "get your house in order" first.

Here's my caveat to all this... I have made AMAZING progress in all these components. But it's taken a long time and I've not been able to get where I want to be with my neurotransmitters. But that's the last piece to the puzzle. For me, I have DNA mutations that I think are preventing the progress I need and I am searching for answers, myself. So, while I think there is a way to make progress, especially for those of you who didn't have these issues before you became ill or started treating Lyme & Co. But if you had issues previously, the solutions might be a little more complex.

Hope this is helpful -

-p
Posted 5/15/2017 2:22 AM (GMT 0)

ChickenArise said...
I restored not only my adrenals but the whole endocrine system accidentally while using Nascent Iodine for an epidydimal cyst.

I doubt you can mix it with any of the meds that are designed to do that but my energy is far better, and brain fog was completely gone after 3 months use. I started really slow and working up to a cap of 15mg daily.

Not many docs are going to recommend this over the drugs. Maybe a naturopath would tell you how you can transition safely.

I don't think it works if you continue to consume other halides (Chlorine, Fluoride including Fluoroquinelones, or Bromine in breads). It also leads to a massive detox of these materials stored in the body which can be unpredictable. I have no regrets going this route but check with your doc. Maybe he cant be the first one to recommend it but if you ask he can sanction it.

Back when I was investigating thyroid, I remember reading up on iodine, which worked for some people (not everyone) and the recommendation was to buy some Ludol's and smear 5 drops on the inside of your forearm. Depending on how long it took for the body to absorb it (judging by the color remaining) you would supplement with a certain number of drops. It didn't work for me, but some people are simply low on iodine. But it is very difficult to get the right dose for some people and I decided not to go too much further w/out help.

Here's a good article:
/www.verywell.com/the-claim-all-thyroid-patients-should-take-iodine-3233027

Back in the 20s they created iodized salt - was missing from soils in parts of the country; then everyone was told to stop eating salt; and now everyone eats sea salt, for good reason. But this isn't why everyone has thyroid problems...

-p
Posted 5/15/2017 2:31 AM (GMT 0)

BJD55 said...

Cheetahjade said...
That is great advice Pirouette. I'm going to try that for sure. I'm awaiting my adrenal results, I'll see them my next appointment with the llmd. Since I've had thyroid issues for the past year and​ a half, it wouldn't surprise me if they're shot.

Can I ask though where you got tested for your adrenals? Was it the all day spit test


I've had 2 of these diurnal salivary cortisol tests. The cheapo one via insurance / labcorp was essentially the same results as the pharmasan labs test. The pharmasan test was their "neuro-adrenal basic" which also looked at dhea, gaba, epi, norepi, glutamate, glycine, histamine, pea, serotonin, and dopamine. That cost me about $300 out of pocket IIRC.
Yes, they were both the all day spit test.

Chicken, did you have cortisol spikes late in the day?

Good post, BJD55. I say, if you're going to do the Pharmasan Labs test, add in all the neurotransmitters as well for another $100, I think.

Cheetahjade - the important thing about the saliva test is to make sure it is the 24-hr test including 4 samples every 5 hrs or so. Some of the tests require only one sample, yet try to pass for an adrenal test... but one cortisol level throughout the entire day isn't going to tell you much.

-p
Posted 5/15/2017 4:41 PM (GMT 0)

Pirouette said...

BJD55 said...
The binder may be problematic because I don't like to drink much after dinner, otherwise I get up 2p 2much in the night. Is 8oz h20 enough with charcoal?

OK - glad you caught that. Yes, 8 oz should be enough w/ charcoal. Try this first:

- Move dinner an hour earlier if you can.
- As long as you think you digest food OK and don't have slow motility, an hour after dinner, take your binder + 8 oz. water
- Then the snack is the very last thing before bed plus a good pee.

Make sure you're not drinking any caffeine during the day - if you are, try keeping it all before noon - but best if you cut it out altogether. It really stresses the adrenals. And of course, no sugar.

Give this at least a wk, plus reducing the Adreset to see if you have any change in both the evening cortisol and the insomnia.

And if this works, try to get off the doxepin.
Hope this is helpful -

-p

Thank You Pirouette!
I tried your suggestions and voila! I slept a solid uninterrupted 6 hours, no doxepin. No 3am pp. My resting pulse was 64 this morning which was normal for me b4 I got sick. Since I've been sick, it's been 72 on a relatively good day but usually about 80, and sometimes as high as 90.
The adreset is expensive stuff at $95 for a bottle of 180 capsules. I'm using 1/32 tsp a day at this time and feeling very good relief from my fatigue. At this rate, I can get ~4 days out of each capsule!

So I have to say, that's a very good hack you recommended. Where'd learn that one?
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