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Herx or Flare -- Stop Meds or Stay the Course?

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Posted 6/5/2017 4:38 PM (GMT 0)
Hi,

I don't mean to beat a dead horse. I have read a lot of entries on the forum about this question: herx or flare? I just can't make sense of it. And, I feel like understanding it is critical to determining how successful you are at treating.

I added Bactrim to my Mepron/Zith regimen and when I reached full dose (after 1 week at 1/2 and 3 days at full), I herxed - headache, fatigue, chills, anxiety, intense tingling and worse foot/hand pain/stiffness.

I waited a few days, and things seemed to calm down, and added the Bactrim back in, this time at just 1/2 dose. Within 3 days, I seemed to herx again -- tingling, burning, numbness, arms so heavy, I felt I could lift them, headaches, anxiety, feeling "disconnected."

I stopped all medications, and I'm still feeling awful. My headache is gone. But, the intense tingling, foot (soles) pain, stiff hands, burning scalp, intermittent numbness, it just won't back down.

I have been detoxing like mad. Is this still a herx? I have a call in to my LLMD, but how do you know when to stay off meds, or when staying off them is making you worse? It's not clear to me yet whether "pushing through" in some cases makes sense or not.

I really felt like I made progress treating Babesia, but now my neuro symptoms are the worst they have ever been.
Posted 6/5/2017 4:53 PM (GMT 0)
It's the question of all time as far as I'm concerned - how to tell if you are herxing or flaring. It's a matter of learning your body, but it sure seems that you are in a herx still. And I would say it's safe to assume that given your recent addition of Bactrim.

You did really good with stopping the abx when the herxing hit the first time, and I would suggest that you continue on this this assumption. Pushing through herxing can lead to dangerous situations though, so listen to your body carefully.

For many, each time they 'reintroduce' the med, the herxing lasts for shorter and shorter periods of time, and with less intensity, until the herxing is down to a low enough level that it causes some increase, but not so much that it's intense or disabling.

Seems Bactrim was a really good choice of abx to go with, as it's hitting things pretty intensely! I hope it lets up soon!
Posted 6/5/2017 8:19 PM (GMT 0)
I think you're right. The Bactrim is hitting Bart, but it also targets Babs. So, maybe that explains why this herx is the most relentless one I've experienced.

Ugh, 5 days and counting... It's just hard to believe a herx can last this long. But, I know it's all about the toxins. Will keep detoxing. Thanks.
Posted 6/5/2017 11:02 PM (GMT 0)
So, my LLMD just said that she thought I should resume the Mepron and Azithromycin for the Babesia ASAP, and add Amoxicilln for Lyme. I'm stunned.

I e-mailed back to say that I couldn't see adding another antibiotic now when I'm feeling so badly. It's hard for me to even wrap my head around resuming the Mepron/Zith.

I've never disagreed with her approach before, but I'm not sure this is the way to go.
Posted 6/6/2017 5:05 AM (GMT 0)
You gotta trust your gut. For me, I know that when I stopped killing Lyme with Byron Whites, it took a week or so to feel better. I was up to the full dose on AL-Complex, but when I started again I couldn't tolerate it. It's like, when you stop, you have to start from ground zero. I still can't do the A-Bab or A-Bart. I think it's OK to give your body a break. Even if it's a long one. It's not fun to start at the bottom again. In fact, it's very frustrating, but you have to listen to your body. I've been treating this for a year and I still can't tell the difference between a herx or flare. No idea. I just assume it's all herx if I'm taking herbs. They seem to build up.
Posted 6/6/2017 6:43 AM (GMT 0)

KB69 said...
So, my LLMD just said that she thought I should resume the Mepron and Azithromycin for the Babesia ASAP, and add Amoxicilln for Lyme. I'm stunned.

I e-mailed back to say that I couldn't see adding another antibiotic now when I'm feeling so badly. It's hard for me to even wrap my head around resuming the Mepron/Zith.

I've never disagreed with her approach before, but I'm not sure this is the way to go.

So the Amoxicillin is instead of Bactrim?
I find Bactrm to be hard to handle but Amoxy was fine.

Did she respond to your email?

If you're still herxing, then it's not a good idea to go back on the Mepron and Zith...let alone a third med.

Hope you feel better in the morning.
Posted 6/6/2017 11:02 AM (GMT 0)
Woke-up still feeling wiped out. In the night had intense tingling, inner vibration and hand numbness. This herx is my worst yet, just unrelenting (day 6).

10LymeB, I agree with you. I can't see putting more ABX in my system right now when my system is clearly struggling with what was already there.

I am extremely discouraged because I had several good days 2 weeks ago, and it's just been awful since then.

Girlie, yes she wants to add Amoxicillin for Lyme, and take-out Bactrim for Bart. I'm not sure I think that's the right route (abandoning Bart when those are my worst symptoms), nevermind adding another medication right now.

She said to add-back the Mepron and the Zith because I'm herxing the Bactrim. But, who is to know the exact culprit? I could be herxing from all three.

Have you ever tried glutathione pushes/IVs for extended/severe herxes?

I feel like this is never going to pass.
Posted 6/6/2017 1:10 PM (GMT 0)
I'm so sorry, KB! I would caution you about allowing your doctor to push you further than you feel is good right now. I allowed this and ended up in a year long herx (literally) and was much, much worse off than when I had started treatments.

How is your detoxing? Are you using binders? If you have still not resumed the abx, now would be a really good time to get some binders in you.

I'm really glad to hear that you had several good days not long ago! That's wonderful as it shows some progress with healing. It's so danged hard to 'go back into it' though!!

As has been said, follow your gut on this one.
Posted 6/6/2017 3:46 PM (GMT 0)
Hi Trav. Thanks for your support. I'm so sorry for what you endured with your year-long herx.

I haven't restarted any medications. I did a glutathione push today and have added binders (charcoal). Still detoxing in every possible way.

I just keep waiting for this herx to lift, and am worried that one that lasts this long -- almost a week without medications -- is a sign that I'm getting worse. It seems so connected to my adding the Bactrim, though.
Maybe 3 antibiotics/drugs are just too much for me, no matter how much I detox.
Posted 6/6/2017 4:01 PM (GMT 0)
Some do find that the pharma route is more than their body can deal with right now - but that doesn't mean that it stays that way or that you won't heal - it's more like a big bump in the road is all. You may need a longer break, may need to go the alternative medicine route for a while or something else - but do remember that you may be able to return to abx at a later date if you so choose.

It really does seem to be a herx, although I'm not in your body - so I would caution you on trying to push through it. I'm not sure what the half life of those meds are, but it seems unlikely that they would still be in your system after a full week either.

Have you heard back from your doctor yet? If so, what are they suggesting this time?
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