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Will Addressing Coinfections Bring More Improvement?

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Posted 10/2/2017 7:40 PM (GMT 0)
As you all know, I saw about 40% improvement in my first 3 months treating and since then I have pretty much just pleasured. The dizziness/off-balance/brain fog, tingling, heart palpitations, weakness and fatigue just will not budge.

One thing that I have not ever really addressed is co-infections. I have never taking Rifampin for bartonella or mepron for babesia and based on my sx I feel that i have at least one, if not, both of them.

I have an appointment with my LLMD this wednesday and want to push to start using these. Is there anything else I should suggest? Like do they need to be pulsed? Because she doesn't usually pulse.. Which should I hit first?

If I address these do you guys think I will improve even more?
Posted 10/2/2017 8:08 PM (GMT 0)
Well, since Lyme rarely travels alone...then yes, addressing the co's will need to happen.

Some LLMD's want to 'hit' the infection that is showing most symptoms...others' like Dr. J. (Washington, DC) want to treat Babesia right away. He feels you can not heal unless that one is tackled.

As far as pulsing or not, it depends on the LLMD. I prefer the pulsing (Dr. J. 's method) - but not sure you can convince a Dr. who doesn't pulse to change the way he prescribes.

It does sound like you're stalled out...if nothing has happened for a few months.

Have cyst been addressed? (Tinidazole or Flagy?)

And remember - when you treat Babesia and/or Bartonella - lyme abx are included...so you are still treating lyme.
Posted 10/2/2017 8:20 PM (GMT 0)
My LLMD treated lyme first. Then I did 2-3 months herbals only. Houttinya wasn't hitting bart hard enough so have been on rifampin about 6 weeks, and my stomach is starting to hurt so will have to take a break.

I think it's good to ask questions.
Posted 10/2/2017 8:22 PM (GMT 0)
I agree that treating coinfections is important. But it might be good that you didn't start it all at once - which could be very hard for the body to handle.

So now that you've made some progress with the Lyme it's good to look into others. One thing you might consider is there are a few herbal tinctures that are low concentration (Beyond Balance MC-bab and MC-bar) that you can easy into treatment with so that's one approach before adding in more abx.

-p
Posted 10/2/2017 8:25 PM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...
Well, since Lyme rarely travels alone...then yes, addressing the co's will need to happen.

Some LLMD's want to 'hit' the infection that is showing most symptoms...others' like Dr. J. (Washington, DC) want to treat Babesia right away. He feels you can not heal unless that one is tackled.

As far as pulsing or not, it depends on the LLMD. I prefer the pulsing (Dr. J. 's method) - but not sure you can convince a Dr. who doesn't pulse to change the way he prescribes.

It does sound like you're stalled out...if nothing has happened for a few months.

Have cyst been addressed? (Tinidazole or Flagy?)

And remember - when you treat Babesia and/or Bartonella - lyme abx are included...so you are still treating lyme.

Right now she has me on ONLY Tinidazole 500 2x a day for three weeks. Is this enough to bust all the cysts? I started the first three months of treatment with Biaxin and Cefdinir then moved to Biaxin and mino for the next three now just the Tini.

I'm assuming I'd do a combo of mepron and something like zithro for babesia and then rifampin and biaxin for bart?
Posted 10/2/2017 8:27 PM (GMT 0)

Pirouette said...
I agree that treating coinfections is important. But it might be good that you didn't start it all at once - which could be very hard for the body to handle.

So now that you've made some progress with the Lyme it's good to look into others. One thing you might consider is there are a few herbal tinctures that are low concentration (Beyond Balance MC-bab and MC-bar) that you can easy into treatment with so that's one approach before adding in more abx.

-p

Do you think Beyond Balance are good enough to knock out a persistent infection? I've been taking cryptolepis for a few months now and it has helped the heart palps a little but that's about all. That is why I am wanting to maybe start hitting it harder.
Posted 10/3/2017 1:10 AM (GMT 0)

NicHostetler said...

Girlie said...
Well, since Lyme rarely travels alone...then yes, addressing the co's will need to happen.

Some LLMD's want to 'hit' the infection that is showing most symptoms...others' like Dr. J. (Washington, DC) want to treat Babesia right away. He feels you can not heal unless that one is tackled.

As far as pulsing or not, it depends on the LLMD. I prefer the pulsing (Dr. J. 's method) - but not sure you can convince a Dr. who doesn't pulse to change the way he prescribes.

It does sound like you're stalled out...if nothing has happened for a few months.

Have cyst been addressed? (Tinidazole or Flagy?)

And remember - when you treat Babesia and/or Bartonella - lyme abx are included...so you are still treating lyme.

Right now she has me on ONLY Tinidazole 500 2x a day for three weeks. Is this enough to bust all the cysts? I started the first three months of treatment with Biaxin and Cefdinir then moved to Biaxin and mino for the next three now just the Tini.

I'm assuming I'd do a combo of mepron and something like zithro for babesia and then rifampin and biaxin for bart?

The tinidazole will bust cysts...but you want to be taking something with it.

Do you know what the plan is?

Yes, Babesia and Zithro is a commonly prescribed Babesia treatment, and Rifampin and Biaxin is good for bartonella.
Posted 10/3/2017 11:59 AM (GMT 0)

Girlie said...

NicHostetler said...

Girlie said...
Well, since Lyme rarely travels alone...then yes, addressing the co's will need to happen.

Some LLMD's want to 'hit' the infection that is showing most symptoms...others' like Dr. J. (Washington, DC) want to treat Babesia right away. He feels you can not heal unless that one is tackled.

As far as pulsing or not, it depends on the LLMD. I prefer the pulsing (Dr. J. 's method) - but not sure you can convince a Dr. who doesn't pulse to change the way he prescribes.

It does sound like you're stalled out...if nothing has happened for a few months.

Have cyst been addressed? (Tinidazole or Flagy?)

And remember - when you treat Babesia and/or Bartonella - lyme abx are included...so you are still treating lyme.

Right now she has me on ONLY Tinidazole 500 2x a day for three weeks. Is this enough to bust all the cysts? I started the first three months of treatment with Biaxin and Cefdinir then moved to Biaxin and mino for the next three now just the Tini.

I'm assuming I'd do a combo of mepron and something like zithro for babesia and then rifampin and biaxin for bart?

The tinidazole will bust cysts...but you want to be taking something with it.

Do you know what the plan is?

Yes, Babesia and Zithro is a commonly prescribed Babesia treatment, and Rifampin and Biaxin is good for bartonella.

She didn't tell me the plan after this. I thought it was really weird that she made me stop both biaxin and mino while taking tini.

I see her tomorrow afternoon and I am going to strongly suggest I try mepron and zithro. I so tired of this off balance feeling and I feel like that may help with that.
Posted 10/3/2017 5:36 PM (GMT 0)
i dont like your protocol. only tinidazole and in low dose. my opinion is u are not touching much with that combo of yours. tinidazole is active in hi doses (1.5gr) because it has a high MIC. and it has to be paired.

all you achieve with that treatment is you get your mithocondria damaged. and u feel out of energy. this is what tinidazole gave me.

the herbs may work when u are done with abx to keep u from relapse. i no longer have faith in them as first line treatment. been there tred that. 2.5 years is imho enough.

after 3 weeks on mino+zithro+rifampin i am 90% fixed. an occasional twitch here and there and thats it...

in my case it surely was bart as it responded so quickly. i was terrified of mino (done that 3yrs ago and ended up inER) but this time was really gentle, just a mild brain herx (dizziness) for 3 days in the beginning of treatment. even more evidence bart was more of a problem than borrelia. i know how a borrelia brain herx looks like...
Posted 10/3/2017 6:03 PM (GMT 0)

mpost said...
i dont like your protocol. only tinidazole and in low dose. my opinion is u are not touching much with that combo of yours. tinidazole is active in hi doses (1.5gr) because it has a high MIC. and it has to be paired.

all you achieve with that treatment is you get your mithocondria damaged. and u feel out of energy. this is what tinidazole gave me.

the herbs may work when u are done with abx to keep u from relapse. i no longer have faith in them as first line treatment. been there tred that. 2.5 years is imho enough.

after 3 weeks on mino+zithro+rifampin i am 90% fixed. an occasional twitch here and there and thats it...

in my case it surely was bart as it responded so quickly. i was terrified of mino (done that 3yrs ago and ended up inER) but this time was really gentle, just a mild brain herx (dizziness) for 3 days in the beginning of treatment. even more evidence bart was more of a problem than borrelia. i know how a borrelia brain herx looks like...

My LLMD does a lot of weird things that I never really agree with, but I am trying to trust her since she has helped a lot of people.

I think I am going to try to hit babs first. I have twitching in one eye and numbness and tingling but my biggest symptom is the brain fog and off balance feelings with headaches and heart palps so I feel like that is more of a babs thing that needs to be cleared with Mepron and Zithro. What do you think?
Posted 10/3/2017 6:06 PM (GMT 0)
mpost - while I agree that Tinidazole alone isn't a good protocol...the dose of 500 mg twice daily is standard.


So, you are saying 500 mg 3X daily for total of 1.5 g?

...not 1.5 grams - one dose
Posted 10/4/2017 12:33 AM (GMT 0)

mpost said...
even more evidence bart was more of a problem than borrelia. i know how a borrelia brain herx looks like...

What do u consider the difference between a bartonella brain and borrelia brain
Posted 10/4/2017 3:31 PM (GMT 0)
Nic, looking at your signature line, you are only taking herbs 2 times a day.

One of our mods here went to a Buhner herbalist and he had her taking it 4 times a day.

I healed with max doses, 3 times a day. But, I was ready to go to 4.

The reasoning the herbalist gave the mod, was that you need continual medicine (herbs) going after the spirochetes with no breaks.

Might be easier to try this before you try antibiotics??? Just guessing here.

But, your herbs could be upped regardless.

PS- Don't up them all at once. Once at a time up them a little to see how you do.
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